this game is the "tic tac toe" of shooters

It can be a better game

It's shit, get over it already.

It's shit but will plap anyway

I'll probably try it. I think it'll probably be a nice alternative to other casual shooters. Looks like it is at least pretty fast, and has *some* sort of movement system.

When I see it as a replacement for quake, I get angry and focus on the ways it will probably suck. But when I look at it as just another new FPS, it stands out as being fast and unrealistic and a little bit e-sporty.

this sums up my feelings pretty well.

really dont see myself wasting money on it, should be free to test atleast

How much will it be?

$25

25$ is good value considering you don't need a chair to play the game.

haha

enjoy the [+] train

railgun is for fucking pussies

pussy weapon
pussy
pussy

rg is a disgusting weapon, they should remove it from ql.

and have bfg as a default weapon instead on maps and on ca

I'll give it a shot but no way in hell will i be actually paying any money for it, unless it massively surpasses my expectations. And i mean massively.

why are u talking about massive dicks?

I'm not. If that's what you're extrapolating from what i wrote, then you're a faggot.

a bunch of people from this site have been supposed to try it by now. I think they can talk about it?

maybe they are busy playing and having fun?!

or maybe they all commited suicide

Today Strenx said that it's slow and boring.

i don't really care, and I don't think anyone should care, about anything strenx ever says, but thanks. anyway, I've tried the game enough to see that it's not slow. it might be boring compared to chaotic quake teamplay dynamics, but only because of landscape maps.

Well i have a teammate who's able to play Shootmania too and he's saying it's fun.

it froze my PC twice, so I can't really judge the fun factor yet :(

I think that's my main dislike - landscape maps. They just bore the shit out of me. Give me some architecture, you know?

In fairness, my opinion is based on watching about 20 minutes of someone else playing it.

So he must have realized that he is even less good in Shootmania than in Quake

Well, he is a notorious whiner AND french, but I guess you'd like to be that good.

I think that would break the NDA wouldnt it? ah w.e ..

.. its atrociously bad and simply not any fun whatsoever in its current state imo... *shrug*

UT instagibbers seem to be enjoying it... not many other groups of people are though. =/

Even Nexuiz (which looks like it would be even MORE marketable than shootmania) had a $9.99 price point, and a steam release, yet failed to do well. It's currently not even in the top 100 steam games, only 1 month after release - that's less than 500 players online. Whatever market there was for the genre, it's pretty much gone. In such a rough situation, shootmania would need SOME kind of selling point, and they don't have graphics, gameplay, or even price.

I can only imagine that the few people supporting Shootmania have been paid to do so. After the initial marketing investment dries up (which shouldn't take long), the game will lose what few players it manages to sucker in. I'll be extremely surprised if it's even half as popular as Painkiller was.

u fucked up, its fucking instagib, everyone likes instagib cuz its fucking ez

nexiuizfaada whatthefuckever was a quake clone a poor shitty one, which of course wont do well if fucking QUAKELIVE is fucking dying

shit son, you slippin

yeah nexiuz is just a quakeclone, and not good. if something is really good the word spread around.

nexuiz has tons of modes, including instagib. It works more like UT with mutators.

tons of modes you gotta go through and find etc, fuck that shit, newbs want 1 mode that they can win and play in

Which it caters to completely.

I think the problem with the game is that it has neither the depth wanted by the casuals, nor the depth wanted by the hardcore.

Casuals want "real-feeling" weapons, classes and different shit to try out. The game will have a lot of gamemodes and maps, but as long as you're stuck with the same two wepons and the same speed, it probably won't be enough.
There has to be something to make you more powerful - that's the reason games with items, levels and other RPG elements are doing well.

Players did get addicted to trackmania though. So if a DM game could be addictive just for the maps and modes, it'd be great news for us, and a thinking point for id and epic.

And the hardcore want... lol who cares what they want. But SM doesn't even have that.

"I can only imagine that the few people supporting Shootmania have been paid to do so."

They are... flights+hotels. lolz

Nexuiz is an awful comparison to Shootmania and you know that.

I don't think it is. Both will be marketed to the same demographic, and I'd say that Nexuiz has an even wider demographic than Shootmania. It has all the shitty casual appeal, better graphics, and a very low price point - yet it completely bombed. If it can't even manage the steam top 100, what chance does Shootmania have with none of that?

Nexuiz doesn't have a shitty casual appeal, Shootmania has a simplistic approach to FPS, Nexuiz is not. They're trying to shove a bunch of weapons down your throat with weird movement, Shootmania is showing you how an FPS game can be simplistic while fun at the same time.

Nexuiz had no e-sports appeal, and it also wasn't advertised anywhere. It didn't have LAN tournaments, streamed events, or anything of that kind. No one cared because no one saw it.

Now Shootmania pulls more viewers for streams and tournaments than Quake ones, and it's in alpha.

If it was a Trackmania argument, I'm sure it would be the same thing. People bitching about a racing game being too simplistic, yet Trackmania did really well in e-sports. Plus this game has pretty much a guarantee into ESWC, and possibly other events because they've proved people will watch it. We won't find out how popular it is until it's released to everyone.

No one wants to pay $10 for a shitty Quake rip-off, Shootmania might be priced higher but it's trying to bring in FPS players of all games, not just one.

how many viewers does SM get now? Quake draws about 10k people for live events

Since when? Oh when there's sc on straight after (edit: or was it lol or dota or something)

I know it sounds like lots. Thing is it happened at last dreamhack because it was the first time id sort of promoted it (fb group and an almost hidden forum post).

Usually potential viewers are 5k, a mark that's hit at every event on quake-only streams. Actually the 2gd show gets about 3-2k

I didn't tune in to the last 2gd arena, but the one before i watched for a few hours and it stayed between 4500k and up to 6k

Nexuiz doesn't have a shitty casual appeal

Have you even looked at it? It's absolutely nothing more than a shitty casual game, and it has everything that you generic gamer looks for in a game. It's the genre, not the features, that is the problem.

They're trying to shove a bunch of weapons down your throat with weird movement

You're thinking of the old Nexuiz. Casual players don't care about any movement, as they'll never use it to begin with, but the new Nexuiz is even more dumbed down.

edit: In case you didn't know, the steam release is essentially a totally different game than the old nexuiz. see here.

Nexuiz had no e-sports appeal

esports doesn't have a wide appeal on its own. I thought you would have learned that from Quake by now.

Now Shootmania pulls more viewers for streams and tournaments than Quake ones, and it's in alpha.

If you're talking about the E3 streams, they don't really count. I sat through plenty of bullshit during E3, in order to see what was coming out. Beating Quake isn't exactly an achievement anyway, especially since Quake is lucky to get what it can by piggy-backing on the popularity of games that come after it.

Plus this game has pretty much a guarantee into ESWC, and possibly other events because they've proved people will watch it.

So? How many ESWC have you attended? What percentage of gamers will attend ESWC? Less than 1%, I'm sure. You can't build a game from competition down - you have to build it from the playerbase up. Nobody is going to play/watch it just because it's being forced into a tournament, and you would do well to remember what happened to Quake 4, and Painkiller.

No one wants to pay $10 for a shitty Quake rip-off, Shootmania might be priced higher but it's trying to bring in FPS players of all games, not just one.

So you believe people don't want to pay $9.99 for a casual shooter with some semi-nice graphics, but they will pay $25 for an even shittier Quake rip-off because "LOL GUISE TOURNAMENTS"?

If you're talking about the E3 streams

I'm not.

What percentage of gamers will attend ESWC? Less than 1%, I'm sure.

Let's just forget the tons of people who would watch the games, I wasn't talking about people attending the event.

So you believe people don't want to pay $9.99 for a casual shooter with some semi-nice graphics, but they will pay $25 for an even shittier Quake rip-off because "LOL GUISE TOURNAMENTS"?

It's a joke you're still comparing the two.

Let's just forget the tons of people who would watch the games, I wasn't talking about people attending the event.

That's the thing: the number of people who actually play in these events is an extreme minority. The events are propped up by the popularity of the game itself, and the game doesn't have that going for it. You can't just throw tournaments at a game in order to get popularity, it has to be the other way around.

It's a joke you're still comparing the two.

It's a joke that we're even discussing Shootmania at all. Nexuiz is a perfect example of a shitty casual game that tried to cater to newbs as much as it could, and even offered it at an extremely low price point. If your average casual is unwilling to drop $9.99 on a game that is better marketed towards their demographic, what makes you think that they will drop more than twice that on a game with less to offer? It's the same genre, other than your LOLESPORTS argument.

Please, tell me what will make this game a success. I get that you have this need to be optimistic about some of this esports bullshit, but I can't possibly see why you would do so for this game.

Nexuiz is a perfect example of a shitty casual game that tried to cater to newbs as much as it could,

No it's not.

If your average casual is unwilling to drop $9.99 on a game that is better marketed towards their demographic, what makes you think that they will drop more than twice that on a game with less to offer?

Nexuiz wasn't marketed at all.

No it's not.

How not?

Nexuiz wasn't marketed at all.

It was, actually. Probably slightly more than shootmania. It even had a front page steam ad, when it was released. Though, in this context, I was speaking of market appeal.

How not?

If it really has to be explained to you it's pretty apparent you don't understand or realize what Shootmania is, so there's no point in me arguing anything else with you.

oooooooo front page steam ad. Because an optional pop-up advertisement in Steam that people instinct-fully close is clearly the superior advertising method.

Hint: you can't tell the different between a game that has over seven weapons, jetpacks, armors, power-ups, and is labelled a "fast paced deathmatch game", vs a game that uses only the arrows keys, space, and fire, and has two weapons.

If it really has to be explained to you it's pretty apparent you don't understand or realize what Shootmania is, so there's no point in me arguing anything else with you.

I just gave you the opportunity to defend your argument. You say that Nexuiz is not a casual game that appeals to newbs. Elaborate.

oooooooo front page steam ad. Because an optional pop-up advertisement in Steam that people instinct-fully close is clearly the superior advertising method.

Yeah, many indie steam games do well even without that kind of ad space. This one didn't.

Hint: you can't tell the different between a game that has over seven weapons, jetpacks, armors, power-ups, and is labelled a "fast paced deathmatch game", vs a game that uses only the arrows keys, space, and fire, and has two weapons.

That's the problem that I'm trying to illustrate. Those are the kinds of things that your average gamer loves. They are still the most popular part of Q3/QL. UT3 focused on this kind of shit, too, and it had the graphics to back it up. We are seeing poor sales in the genre, despite giving people what they want - obviously the genre has run its course.

You're now comparing that to a game that has next to NO features, no gameplay, no graphics, and at a $25 price point. What is your selling angle? You keep dodging this question, yet insisting that it will be popular. I honestly hope that you're being paid to spout this bullshit, as it's preferable to believing that you honestly think that this game will have any success.

Yeah, many indie steam games do well even without that kind of ad space. This one didn't.

You just proved my point.

You're now comparing that to a game that has next to NO features, no gameplay, no graphics, and at a $25 price point.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. No features? No gameplay? No graphics? The trailer for the game was in-game, which looked good. There's endless amounts of gameplay, you can make your own mode and maps. There's already good modes in the game. No features? LAN, matchmaking, stats, ranks, ladders, jesus christ you literally have no idea what this game is even about do you. You haven't even touched the game because if you have you wouldn't be acting like a complete retard when it comes to talking about the game. You're taking "talking out of your ass" to a new level.

I don't have to defend anything to you, Nexuiz isn't a simple made-for-the-casuals shooter in comparison to shootmania. You know what the SM binds are? WASD, space, and fire. That's it. There isn't eleven weapon binds and a bunch of other shit, the game is made simple just like Trackmania. Of course you wouldn't know that since you haven't even touched the game once.

No one cares what you, or all of ESR things about this game. This place is a niche community where if it isn't Quake, it isn't anything, and you should know that. You're the prime example, if it isn't SC2, it isn't anything. I wish I could like Sc2 so I could use it as a cop-out to every argument about game popularity like you do. Honestly I don't give a shit about player numbers and sales figures, that doesn't make a game good, it makes it popular. Shit games are popular. Shit music is popular. Shit movies are popular. Get your head out of your ass and just realize there's people like me to like to compete in DM Style FPS games for competition and LAN events, that's it. I don't care if it's UT2k4, Quake 3, 4, whatever, I want to play it in tournaments, that's my fun. Not your fun, or anyone else, mine. Oh yes vedic, I'll keep riding that Quake train, the one that provides two tournaments a year, all of which have been invite only for the past two years.

Not everything is SC2, not everything is about these bullshit numbers and sales and what ever other statistic garbage you want to throw at me. Where's the lan events for Quake? There's already more LANs for this game than Quake and it's in fucking alpha. If you were actually in the alpha you'd see there's already a bunch of fun pub style modes for people to play with a shitload of user made maps.

But hey I'll just do what you do and bash anything that isn't SC and keep my head in my ass.

WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF WOULD OF

You just proved my point.

Proved what point? That the genre is dead?

The trailer for the game was in-game, which looked good.

The art design alone is bland and terrible, but the graphics are extremely dated.

There's endless amounts of gameplay, you can make your own mode and maps.

We already had that feature in Q3, and nothing but bad came from it. If you want a million different communities that all want their own rules/settings, you'll end up with nobody playing anything. These features did not save Q3.

No features? LAN, matchmaking, stats, ranks, ladders, jesus christ you literally have no idea what this game is even about do you.

-_- These are all features that already exist in every other game - you know, the ones that failed? It's not bringing anything new to the table.

You know what the SM binds are? WASD, space, and fire. That's it. There isn't eleven weapon binds and a bunch of other shit, the game is made simple just like Trackmania.

Why not get rid of space and fire? Hell, let's just get rid of everything. This is clearly the best way to make a game.

This place is a niche community where if it isn't Quake, it isn't anything, and you should know that. You're the prime example, if it isn't SC2, it isn't anything.

I support many games, and communities. You can't even blame this on being a Quake fanboy, since you know my criticism for Quake.

Honestly I don't give a shit about player numbers and sales figures, that doesn't make a game good, it makes it popular.

See, that would be an argument if the idea was to make a really deep/complex game that alienated casual players, for the good of competition. You don't have that. You have absurdly dumbed down gameplay, on top of no players.

Get your head out of your ass and just realize there's people like me to like to compete in DM Style FPS games for competition and LAN events, that's it.

How many LAN tournaments have you taken part in? Is it even 1?

Oh yes vedic, I'll keep riding that Quake train, the one that provides two tournaments a year, all of which have been invite only for the past two years.

I'm not trying to convince you to play Quake, so I'm not sure why you're attacking that straw man.

Not everything is SC2, not everything is about these bullshit numbers and sales and what ever other statistic garbage you want to throw at me.

Really? Then why did you ditch Quake? In your own words, it doesn't have tournaments. Do you know why it doesn't have tournaments? It's because it doesn't have spectators. Do you know why it doesn't have spectators? It's because it doesn't have players. It's important to research the viability of a game, if you intend to put a lot of time into it.

But hey I'll just do what you do and bash anything that isn't SC and keep my head in my ass.

Feel free to browse my comment history. I don't even think I've even mentioned SC2 on this site in the past few months. You made these same tired arguments with me in defense of QL, when the game was still in closed beta. Here you are, proving that I was right from the start - making the same tired arguments for a new game. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure we went through this with BLC, too. I'm sure you'll show me this time!

How many LAN tournaments have you taken part in? Is it even 1?

It's at least seven, so no.

List?

Why the fuck do you even care

I've been to two Quakecons for the tournaments which is twice as much as you thought I went to, the rest you can look it up yourself or ask people because I'm not defending myself to some fucking argumentative starcraft loving faggot bitch like you.

Try to keep your rage to a single reply. I'd like to see a list to see how well you did. If you play Quake for competition, it stands to reason that you should perform accordingly. Which years did you attend, and what did you place?

vedic you fucking lost son, you compared nexiuz to shootmania, they are nothing alike shootmania is the next LoL in terms of easy shit casual game, its super easy.

now fuck off, we're sick of you as well, raythenoobs fucking pseudo-intellectual cousin

They are the same genre, marketed to the same demographic. I know that they aren't the same, and that's the point. Shootmania is lacking even half of what Nexuiz offers, and Nexuiz completely caters to casuals.

it might be the most popular quake-style fps ...
but it will be nothing like LoL

Uh, no, because then it's going to turn into "well who did you play" and then it's going to turn into "well that person wasn't even in shape" bullshit, just like how every other asshole here argues and tries to piss people off.

so no.

So you can't actually list any tournaments that you've taken part in, or your placement? You're quite the competitive player!

No, I just don't want to. It's not that I can't it's that I won't. Big difference.

I see. Well, attempting to do any search turned up nothing. I can't seem to find you placing at any Quakecon. The only thing that turns up linking you to Quakecon is your rants against it.

WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE WOULD HAVE

WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA WUDDA

e-sports has a very good appeal when it comes to marketing, i'd say.

thats how LoL came to fame initially isn't it? Even to this day people i know who play LoL tell me how awesome the game is BECAUSE the developers put in alot of money for tournaments.

not really. It came to be famous because it was free, released at the perfect time, continued to be actively supported every day and so on.

Competition is just an addition and it's mostly targeted to keep people playing, as you can see from stream and ladder numbers. Just like every other game competitive players are less than 1%.

yeah, but in LoL, most players seem to enjoy watching professional matches.

i hate it when people say LoL is free. i know what you mean, but they want me to pay >200€ for the whole game(without skins). i know i can farm that crap, but still, its just nuts.

the stream that had the most viewers ever had 200,000 at the same time. At that time the game had 32m accounts.

LoL is freemium like lots of current games. Thing is it's by far "more free" than any other I've tried, and almost no one plays with every char anyway. For example I haven't spend a penny on champions yet I have 80% (only missing the very expensive ones) and 100% of competition runes (and rune pages) ever used.

The professional scene came about because there was a huge casual scene. The game was fun for the players, above all else. Tournaments will be the result of any game with enough players, and a competitive platform.

TM did well in "e-sports" because it was free. The game simply died the moment they charged for it, just like all other titles of that franchise.

If QL didn't fail miserably due to syncerror fucking up (queues to play) the game would have been tried by more than 3 million players, same as sc2, which is the number of accounts but most weren't used once. I posted the data like 2 weeks ago and couldn't find it, lol.

What weapons are in shootmania?

As many as there are in's in your sentence.

How how about now?

Twice as many.

2*0=0...

I've just spoken to one of the Storm developers and he confirmed Shootmania will be a big hit with sponsors already backing up the game. Only few hours ago one of the biggest name in cheap particle board furniture, IKEA, signed partnership with Shootmania where they will have a special tasty offer for the first 100'000 customers, who will have the privilege to receive a chair (*if they pay for it) with their pre-order!
http://i.minus.com/imylLXDVXpZKz.png - click here until approval
[img]1
Exclusive list of all advantages this product has to offer:

+ sit down like a boss and demolish the competition
+ play longer without getting tired
+ take advantage over your standing opponent
+ 30% aim impovement across the range on all weapons FACT!!!*2 weapons only
+ undetectable in online play
+ dr. Oetker certified
+ 1 year warranty
+ free maintanance on every LAN

Read what our sponosored pro gamers have to say:

Strenx: "I shat my pants when I sat down, couldn't believe the difference it made to the actual game play"

Cooller: "It was something Russia could never previously afford but thanks to IKEA we are rolling"

Stermy: "I couldn't figure out how to use the chair so unfortunately had to return it. But it looked like a good product"

Fatal1ty: "It's the pro gear every gamer needs to buy from me. Fat chairs now available for double the price!"

DKT: "I lost the game, but I used the chair to punish the competition. I rate it 5/5"

John Cena: "There are two people I trust in this world, me, and this chair"

Great Khali: "asfkljlkajsifklaflkajl"

Take ur plus

ROFL nice

:_D

toxjq: "You don't know what would happen to you at LAN without this chair"

+ dr. Oetker certified :DDDDDDDDD

stermy alltimes professional <3

=]

ROFL

[+++]

I only have to add that Razer just started the develop of the Razer Sitadder (TM), black, with teflon feet, weighting only 1200 grams and with writted on the back: "Get the unfair advantage"

ye but I heard those have legs of different length which can cause jiggling on quick movements. Though some people reported that you can fix this with a piece of tape.

)))))))))))))) nice men!

"Cooller: "It was something Russia could never previously afford but thanks to IKEA we are rolling""

Not a big deal.... In soviet russia, chairs sits on YOU

Some SM duel footage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKyEDDV60MM

wtf is this?

"You start with 0 ammo getting to a pole gives you 5 ammo, get&#65279; 7 hits to win the round. " from a comment on youtube...if that's their idea of a duel mode i dont see this game taking off past the initial sponsor buzz tournament

they have chairs, fucking hackers

I thought gaming had hit an all time low with the prevalence of COD and its similar watered down retard friendly shittyness... guess I was wrong. People actually defend this shit? Were they born in a cave 2 weeks ago?

CoD1 was awesome so SU! mmm..key?

para

Why do they always go the same way around?

Can't hit the same pole two times in a row to get ammo, you have to alternate between them.

Yeah but they always, always go over that jump pad and then onto the platform and down to the bottom pole, then up the jump pad to the tree. Never just went back to the tree and down to the bottom pole.

Maybe the dev didn't know the map, wouldn't surprise me tbh.

Yeah it is quite a complex map

one more info

in shootmania you have exactly 6 actions you can bind.

1-4. forward,backward,left,right
5. shoot
6. jump/run and yes it's rly on the same bind and no they will definitely not change it

wtf (again).

I want to use the pro player's config

the arrow keys strike back

well, there would be a command to swith between the weapon? so 7 at least

no there is no cmd to switch weapons u only have one weapon. There are 2 weapons and depending where you stand on the map you have one or the other.
In round based mod you have rail as attacker and rocket (1st one in any game ever that has no splashdmg ^^) as defender

Holy shit, it is even worse then I thought. :)

now i can sleep again i give it one month

well, interesting and original, at least... it opens new possibilities and tactics

what? it does the opposite

it may reduces the OVERALL possible possibilities, but surely it introduces some other, new tactics

may

what? may?

but surely it introduces some other, new tactics

move there to get the weapon? That's far more simple than a possibility to have two weapons and to be able to switch between them, because the movement is associated with the weapon you have. That's just dumbing the already very simple game down.

no, i don't think so: when i said may i was trying to be elegant; it reduces the overall possibilities, but for exaple allow to have 2, 3 or more possibilities to have one weapon in the same map, and not only 1 spawn; which means that, for example, you can choose the best weapon-spawn ground between the ones present;

also, doesn't allow to run all around with, for example, the railgun, which means less all-aim matches, or more troubled, which is probably one of the reasons that make that game to doesn't like anymore to strenxie;

rocket vs rocket
rail vs rocket
rail vs rail

this is determined by position, so you can't have two weapons, or hide one, for that matter. Yay, great new tactics incoming.


...are you really optimistic about this?


Rail is only a problem when it removes uses for other weapons and makes situations simple aimfests. I can't see how this is relevant if you only have two weapons based on position.

Or you didn't understand what i wrote or you don't want to understand my point; i suggest to read again what i wrote before

I didn't feel like replying exactly to it.

I agree with the first point (the example)

The second one is irrelevant, because the game is already void of any real depth apart from tactical surrounding and aiming, which is very little. It's the removal of depth that we fear with the railgun in q3, which doesn't happen in ShootMania anymore, really.

My reply was focusing on the fact that your two points don't matter - the game is incredibly dumbed down and it's not worth discussing the few new things it introduces if one's sure there's not too many of them.
Would you agree that it removes most of what we love in DeathMatch games and adds very little?

All your statements doesn't matter at all to what i've said.
You suddenly started pointing out that the overall tactics are poor, that the game itself is "voids", and thing like this; i've not even mentioned that kind of stuffs; i've only pointed out that the different weapon switching system is original,and it is, and it allows new dynamics, to which we are not used to; nothing more, nothing less;
all the other things you added are things that you have added

You're correct about your examples.


However, you did say

it may reduces the OVERALL possible possibilities, but surely it introduces some other, new tactics

Which makes it look like the things you're pointing out here aren't trivial. But they are.

I'll repeat myself:

<...> the game is incredibly dumbed down and it's not worth discussing the few new things it introduces if one's sure there's not too many of them.
Would you agree that it removes most of what we love in DeathMatch games and adds very little?

If you agree, why do you keep on trying to make a positive view out of it? You're going into nearly meaningless specifics. If this is because they simply interest you, I'm ok with that.
If this is because you want to prove the game's value though, they'll never be enough.

"However, you did say

it may reduces the OVERALL possible possibilities, but surely it introduces some other, new tactics "
In the reply, i wrote:

"when i said may i was trying to be elegant; it reduces the overall possibilities, "

Maybe i should have explained it better ^;

"Which makes it look like the things you're pointing out here aren't trivial. But they are."
"If you agree, why do you keep on trying to make a positive view out of it? You're going into nearly meaningless specifics. If this is because they simply interest you, I'm ok with that.
If this is because you want to prove the game's value, they'll never be enough. "

And here stand your comprehension problem: you thought ( with no reasons) that i was trying to makes the game looking better or worse, but i didn't: when i say "roses are red and violets are blue", i am only pointing out that violets are blue, or that roses are red, and the fact that blue is interesting doesn't implies that red isn't.

Understood.

I disagree, though, that your example was like

when i say "roses are red and violets are blue", i am only pointing out that violets are blue, or that roses are red, and the fact that blue is interesting doesn't implies that red isn't.

Instead, it was between that and
"shit has some good values too"

It wouldn't take a genius to understand that the second statement, without context, is biased, more likely than not.

And what i understood, and it wouldn't take a genius, is that you are heavily against sm, and your statements was like
"shit cannot have any value at all";
so you were only trying to take out stuffs to go against sm

There's a reason I used shit in the example - anybody reasonable will not defend theoretical uses for shit. That's the thing - it's shit. I'm not taking any value out of it if it's obvious that it's shit and there's hardly any use for it.

As an competitive game, skillwise, ShootMania is shit. If you disagree, you don't have a clue about what makes an actual competitive game.

It's very weird how you're trying to do this. You agree that it removes skill overall, but you're still trying to point out tiny specifics ( which I didn't say don't exist ) that don't matter.

It's not that I cannot see some tiny things in the game, it's that there's no reason to if it's evident that SM isn't the game I'm looking for.

If you want to play it - play it, just don't go around calling everybody who puts it into it's correct category heavily biased or anything. It is what it is.

Again, you confirmed all that i have wrote above: you are just angry, for some reasons that i don't know and that i don't care, about shootmania, and you were just trying to vent your anger against someone that, for any reasons, weren't wroting shit about the things you hate;

Your words: "If you disagree, you don't have a clue about what makes an actual competitive game.
It's very weird how you're trying to do this. You agree that it removes skill overall, but you're still trying to point out tiny specifics ( which I didn't say don't exist ) that don't matter.
It's not that I cannot see some tiny things in the game, it's that there's no reason to if it's evident that SM isn't the game I'm looking for."

It is noticeable that in many of your statements (one more raged than the above) you try to argue that i'm a shootmania fan, and that i'm trying to say that it is a good game;
as it is clear to constate, in my posts i've not said anithing of the stuffs you throw in;
and that fact is even more clear when you ask to me if i'm trying to say that shootmania is a good game even after you have stated it like a true thing.

From what i've said from my first post it is clear that i've never even mentioned the overall quality of the game, the quality of the game itself, or his quality compared to other games, and i've never even mentioned the fact that i like, or even consider, the game; from my posts there aren't game ratings or statements for a simple reason, that i wasn't commenting the game, that i don't even know, but only a single *weapon switch mechanic*, that could have belonged to an other game, and that game wouldn't have modified my intersting in that, single, gameplay mechanic;

all the rest that you have putted in after that single statement, are stuffs that you have putted in ;
It is what it is.

Your first two comments, without the context written later, sound like you are trying to make out a positive opinion about the game.

My confusion about it is natural, and not much in your posts was specific enough for me to understand that you're just discussing the few specific things.

You became defensive well before it was clear that you're just talking about the specific examples.

In fact, if people don't specify what exactly it is they're saying and get replies from a broader perspective, they usually acknowledge the perspective and go on talking about it - rarely even specifying that it wasn't that what they were specifically talking about. The fact that you became so defensive instead suggests that you're kind of uneasy with the broader topic, and that your replies, perhaps, were not so specific.


However, if those specific examples are all you were trying to prove here, there's nothing we disagree on. I will hold that I find the way you acted was weird anyway, but if you don't want to discuss the broader point, I'm okay with it.

Don't go around calling me something using proof from a broader topic you didn't discuss though - you either enter it or you don't, and if you don't, you have no place calling me angry or a hater.

My first two comments:
1-:"well, there would be a command to swith between the weapon? so 7 at least"
(the reply from the other guy)
2-:"well, interesting and original, at least... it opens new possibilities and tactics "


"Your first two comments, without the context written later, sound like you are trying to make out a positive opinion about the game.

My confusion about it is natural, and not much in your posts was specific enough for me to understand that you're just discussing the few specific things."

-My first two comments were a question to that specific thing and the relative reply to the guy who answered; the game itself was not even mentioned, and it's not clear where did you see "that i was trying to make out a positive opinion about the game"; at least to the specific things that i questioned about the the guy who answered, due to the fact that i've never heard something like that, like the major part of the gamer, i suppose; it is also clear clear that "interesting" and "original" aren't necessarily positive adjectives; for example, the news that a criminal has been arrested is interesting both for the criminal and for who have suffered the crime, but with different connotations; and someone can invent an original way to kill someone, but that isn't necessarly a positive thing; (it can be an intersting thing, aniway;)
To understand that kind of things is enough a basic knowledge of english (very basic, i can ensure it to you) and not to be obtused by hate;

"you either enter it or you don't, and if you don't, you have no place calling me angry or a hater. "
"You became defensive well before it was clear that you're just talking about the specific examples."
As already demonstrated, it was clear that i was talking about the specific example, having specifically answered about that and then simply replied to answer received, that was also specific on the particular i asked;

And mostly, you became aggressive well before i became defensive.

-one more info

in shootmania you have exactly 6 actions you can bind.

1-4. forward,backward,left,right
5. shoot
6. jump/run and yes it's rly on the same bind and no they will definitely not change it

-well, there would be a command to swith between the weapon? so 7 at least

-no there is no cmd to switch weapons u only have one weapon. There are 2 weapons and depending where you stand on the map you have one or the other.
In round based mod you have rail as attacker and rocket (1st one in any game ever that has no splashdmg ^^) as defender

-well, interesting and original, at least... it opens new possibilities and tactics

If this isn't seeing the positive, I don't know what is. I seriously thought this was sarcasm at first, no joke.

"-well, interesting and original, at least... it opens new possibilities and tactics"

If you are saying that this CAN be seen whith positive accentuations, then you are right, it can and also the opposite, as already demonstrated before;

"it opens new possibilities and tactics" : that piece hasn't still have been explained, so here we go: even to add an HELLO KITTY-thrower, that shoots little kittyes that bounces around incessantly screaming with their unbearable little voices to stun and disorient the opposite player (with infinite ammos, of course) would opens new possibilities and tactics, but that doesn't necessarly implies that it is a positive thing

Let's put it this way, if one said that your mother was dead, you wouldn't be looking for new possibilities it opens. That's an extreme example, but it shows a trend - the worse the news, the less likely you are to look for positive thoughts, and positive thoughts in this context ("it opens new possibilities and tactics" is inherently positive) do seem weird and are naturally deemed to mean a positive outlook to the game.

Honestly, if you were not looking to point out positive things about the game, I'm not sure what you were doing. Your side of the conversation would never go like that. And the first post is weird, period.

"Let's put it this way, if one said that your mother was dead, you wouldn't be looking for new possibilities it opens. That's an extreme example, but it shows a trend - the worse the news, the less likely you are to look for positive thoughts"

Let's put in this way: in a case like that you may not be looking for new possibilities it opens, but it would still open new possibilities, so if you are not wanting to see them, it is only a your fault

"Honestly, if you were not looking to point out positive things about the game, I'm not sure what you were doing."

If that is all that you don't understand, then the answer is simple: i was making a question, to another guy, wha said that the possible binds are only 6 at all; but the "switch weapon" command weren't in there, so knowing that there are 2 weapons i pointed out that at least there must have been 7 binds instead of 6; he replied explaining to me the original mechanics that allow to don't depend to a command to swith between the weapons, and his answer surprised me, and i told him;
And that's all.

Again, I repeat, I never denied the possibilities, I just pointed out that they were minor. Defensive again.

I'm bored of this, and I won't repeat myself anymore. In no way does it seem like you were doing what you're stating you were doing. I'm done with this. Have a good day.

Again, I repeat, I never pointed out quality statements, I just pointed out the possibilities. Aggressive again.

I'm bored of this, but i will never accept, in a general contest, unjust aggressions.
In no way does it seem like you were understanting what i was stating.
I'm maybe done with this.
Have a good day, and an exciting Dreamhack.

That's how much money and proper advertisment means nowadays. It doesn't really matter if the product is good or rather not, people will always buy shit in a nice package (Association with razer products? Nothing unexpected, really.).

EDIT: And no, I'm not blaming here any of quake pros moving to this game. E-sports is the way of their life... if quake can't provide them proper e-sport challanges then... And also I hope everyone knows that they're changing game not because it's better at all.

whats the razer hint about? im really happy with their products

djeeezus fuck. Map control became a 100m back and forth sprint for aimwhores.

Get to rail platform, hit the enemy whilst he is in the air.
Knock him off from the important routes to where he can only use rockets.
Rush to next pole, get to rail platform.
Repeat?

fuck man, you just ruined the whole metagame for hylis !

Is there going to be some kind of trial or open beta for this game? If not, it is very doubtful that I will shell out the $25 price for this, based on what I've seen so far

Personally I wouldn't shell out the mouse click to downoad it for free.

you shelled out keystrokes and mouse clicks on something you wouldn't.

zz

and yet this is gonna deliver more prizes in one year than quake did in the past three

really can see this game die quickly if this is what its gonna come down to. and some players with insane aim being dominant during the time it will be played, and make some money, and then leave. :D

we need massive advertisement for ql, so as soon as this game is about to die, the contrast will be huge and all those SM players will go 'ooooh' and 'aaah' when they see a real fps =P

Quake will never die (c) stermy
What dont u fuckin understand???

damn thats a brilliant idea! we need quake booths at sm lans. not sure if sm has ingame ADs but if so.. u know what to do

market quake as what it is ... the most skilled fps out there for the elite of gamers ...

Do you really think that playing quake makes you elite of gamers?

yup, because nowadays games become more and more dumbed down and fake skill games like Diablo WoW are taking over

Well design a pamphlet and print out hundreds and do drops at universities :0

looks like a simplified quake ...
I will give it try, when I have my new pc and good inet con ...
but guess I won't play it for long, I do not really like these outdoor environments, they look like q3a/ql spacemaps with jungle textures ... and actually I *finally* want to try to play QL ... never had a good con or pc or time in the last 5 years ...

Dem new gametypez
Battle
&
Royale.

I wonder how many crap variations on thunderstruck 1v1 we could shit in 48h.

Some vids with strenx and av3k

http://www.shootmaniaesports.com/381/boss-fig...renx-av3k/

tbh i don't give many fucks about strenx competing in this bs, but i reallly hope this won't get in the way of av3k playing quake. he's one of those players that have a very entertaining playstyle and aren't fucking arrogant, let alone his ability to explain the game to noobs is just unmatched (maybe only by rapha), and his interviews and casts are just awesome.

BUT still be careful he doesn't steal your shoes for his businesses with cypher and cooller!

edit: also cypher!!!

I agree with you. I don't think av3k will play the game because he enjoys it... if he play shitmania, his reason will be money and competition (I.e. he would go to any quake event ranger than an SM event, as long as the money isn't like three times bigger on the shit event)

I think many pro Quakers think the same, even strenx. All it takes is a new quake game that is flawless from the perspective of pro gaming, and highly enjoyable for both casual and competitive amateurs.

All it takes is a new quake game that is flawless from the perspective of pro gaming, and highly enjoyable for both casual and competitive amateurs.

That's so naive, I had to comment on it. The quake crowd doesn't want their game to be changed, but it needs big changes to be attractive to casuals. Do you see the clash? You are on the same wagon btw, calling new things "shit" before they are even released and keep comparing them to good ol' quake live.

big changes != getting rid of 80% of the actual game

people almost kill each other in discussions like if mg should do 4dmg or 5dmg. What do you think would happen if id dared to simplify strafejumping for example?

Lots of whine, nobody actually trying anything different except you. Don't give a fuck. #arqon

i don't even wwant to imagine them trying that, let alone the shitstorm that would ensue if they dare change the spawns on ztn, oh wait.

Yeah, because we get new flawless high-skilled deathmatch fps-es every other day. I'm not sure it can be pulled off, but it's not like we've seen multiple [perfect] games fail.

New things are new, they're new because they're different, and i they're different, from some perspectives, they might be shit. You're the idiot saying that nobody can analyze things from different perspectives.

Fail to understand my post and call me idiot, gj.

And how did I not understand it? Your post is full of logical fallacies, and for all I know you could've as well skimmed my post, seen the word "idiot" and replied with a generic rebuttal instead of trying to understand what I pointed out.

I did mean "you're acting like an idiot" instead of "you're an idiot " though, I didn't make that clear. Sorry.

Can you point out the "logical fallacies" in my post? I got to figure out if there is some kind of language barrier in our discussion or if you are plain dumb.

I'm silly. I even wrote a few lines before realizing that you're asking me to write more even though you don't bother reading my first post. Go read that before replying again.

And if you had bothered to read my first post you would have realized that this discussion is about quake and its community, not about fps in general.

The quake crowd doesn't want their game to be changed, but it needs big changes to be attractive to casuals. Do you see the clash?

People whine.
Does that mean that we can't ignore some of them when it's needed? No.
Does that mean that they will not play a new quake because they can't play a game even slightly different? No.
Does that mean they're always wrong? No.
Does that mean they can't provide valuable input? No.
Does that mean that they can't see anything valuable in anything new? No.

You are on the same wagon btw, calling new things "shit" before they are even released and keep comparing them to good ol' quake live.

Does that mean they will all mindlessly call everything shit just because it's different? No.

Is it bad to hate on a game in alpha stage because of minor nuances? Sure. But is it stupid to analyze a game in a certain (high-skill gameplay) perspective if it's clear what direction it's going with that? When the devs have already shown their view and are not likely to change it... and when they're taunting the game as a savior of esports... Of course not.

The guy you replied to was speaking both about quake and shootmania. You didn't attack any of his points really, you acted like all the "no"s above were actually yes (that's your logical fallacies). Acted all high and mighty just because he was negative. Threw a bunch of stereotypes at him. Replied about both of the games, saying it's the same topic.

And now you can't understand when somebody points this out to you.

His point

All it takes is a new quake game that is flawless from the perspective of pro gaming, and highly enjoyable for both casual and competitive amateurs.

Has not been debunked. It's central to his post. You quoted it, but somehow failed to understand it. As if hating on a shitty game somehow proved that we can never have nice things, which essentially brings all the questions I wrote above into play, and requires you to break the logic in most of them to reply to him the way you did.

This is a discussion forum. Learn to discuss without absurd assumptions or go away.

Quake live is already close to perfect regarding skill and balance, especially duel. A quake game that shall please today's casuals will have to sacrifice some things, like for example the advanced movement system. And that doesn't go together with "flawless from the perspective of pro gaming". That's why it's naive to ask for

a new quake game that is flawless from the perspective of pro gaming, and highly enjoyable for both casual and competitive amateurs.

There's the interface, tournament capabilities, skins, modes, maps, graphics, animations of physics and many other things to tweak. And the gameplay doesn't have to be the same to be good.

That's before some actual marketing. If Shootmania becomes popular, it's not because people "have been craving for some instagib gameplay". Most people newbies that tried QL tried that, too. Edit: In fact, a ShootMania-like game could be fit into Quake as a mode or as multiple of modes, without losing too much of the appeal just because of the movement.

And the gameplay doesn't have to be the same to be good.

True, but the question is how much quake would be left in a new quake game that goes a different way in gameplay after 16 years. I think if you had to create a profitable quake game nowadays it wont have much in common with quake as we know it beside of basic things like a similar set of weapons and of course the name.

There's the interface, tournament capabilities, skins, modes, maps, graphics, animations of physics and many other things to tweak.

Quake Live isn't that bad regarding those things either. The interface is OK, the graphics are decent (for a free game) and there are lots of modes and maps to explore for a newbie. I fear that it actually IS the gameplay that scares many possible players off. And either you ignore them and keep the game pure or you try to please them, boil down the game, gain lots of players, high numbers of streamviewers, big sponsors etc..

At least I don't have seen a way yet on how to make a real quake game popular in 2012.

I'm not sure it's possible too.

But Quake Live could be a lot better, regarding those. In-game tournaments alone, a decent ladder and matchmaking would do wonders.

Should they design a new quake, they could experiment a little with modes. Make a teamplay mode the base for the game, something more qw-like so it's actually good, have it dumbed down by adding CA elements to it in the lower tears. Always note item pickups, praise players for picking more up. Have the CA/FFA mixes for newbies and practice. I think they already added things like that for Premium users.

This, along with the perfect organizing\ladder\mapmaking\other capabilities and a marketing campaign, perfect from the start hasn't been tried. I'm not saying it's very smart, business-wise, to try it, but it's something we can't deny would make an impact.

Remember what happened when Quake Live went out of beta? How tournaments around that time and before it were reporting good viewing numbers and such? An actual Quake 5 with the above features would topple that, possibly tenfold (edited: and be able to keep enough of the players in the game ).

Somehow I still have hope that id will at least try it, the way they talk about it makes it seem so at least. If there's a market for that many indie games, a good Quake installment should be able to, at the very least, keep a decent playerbase. If they pull it off perfectly. That remains to be seen.

a good Quake installment should be able to, at the very least, keep a decent playerbase.

And that's what Quake Live does, despite all the negative talk. Qlranks.com shows some impressive numbers: "1,609,616 Duels, 95,470 TDM's and 342,548 CA's". That's not that bad for a niche game within 1-1.5 years.

An actual Quake 5 with the above features would topple that, possibly tenfold (edited: and be able to keep enough of the players in the game ).

To achieve that it would have to be really good and supported by a strong marketing campaign. And it got to be something fresh, yet not like Quake 4 obviously lol. But id doesn't have the money to do this and tbh I doubt that they have the necessary skills either. I actually hope that CS:GO will be a big success to keep the genre of competitive fps alive. Valve would also be one of the few companies that could create a good DM-based fps imo. But overall I don't have much hope considering that Quake Live doesn't seem to be profitable..

just send a team of 3 consisting of: toxjq/k1llsen/stermy

see what happens when they destroy the playerbase by winning every tournament and ranging fucking everyone.

(whats a cs kid know about shooting rockets, or dodging? lol)

this game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3t2Y7NdHk6Q looks a lot more fun than this generic shooter crap, especially if you're a Game Of Thrones nerd

hopefully it will be competitive :D

ever tried Rune?

It does end up being very simple, kind of like this rail vs rocket thing in the end, sadly. Gets boring, too. I guess teamplay can mix things up.

Vaguely reminds me of Mount & Blade Warband.

same dev :D

to the devs of shitmania: congratz on attracting the inmeasurble count of 50 viewers on stream today!

well done and good luck :>

So amny people here slagging off a game they havent played ... rawrrrrr keyboard warrriors chargeee! ...

stupid.

Anyways, I played this yesterday. The graphics are nice (all you quake tards STFU about gfx, look at your quake config you cant tell anyone about gfx). The movement is interesting. The fire rate of the weapons and the way the weapons regenerate ammo really makes you think. The game modes are both fun and can be tactically challenging.

My first impressions of this where "awesome". This is coming from a guy who use to be addicted to quake and was quite into bf3 for a little while. So all ends of the spectrum.

Seriously, if you haven't played it go crawl back into your hole.

"The fire rate of the weapons and the way the weapons regenerate ammo really makes you think"

dont think too hard then, you might injure your brain.

agreed, also "addicted to quake and was quite into bf3 for a little while" dunno if i should laugh or?

is it dead by now? or?

I think so. Streamers never reached more than 150 viewers lately, as far as I know.