7

esr -> text -> wiki (7-7-7)

edit: Oops sry, I believe it's not there. Anyway it's 7 dmg per cell like I said before

7-7-7

7-7-7

1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10

7 online, 14 on lan

Too much.

IMHO it's perfect. It's still top tier weapon, but not as overwhelming as it was in Q3.

You mean CPMA I guess, because Q3's LG is weaker than QL's LG by far.

LG is one of the three overpowered weapons in QL, but unlike the two others (RL and PG), and because of this atrocious newb-friendly netcode, it's still overpowered at 80ms...

I'm a bit tired to be fragged in 0.8 second by some random tier 4 (or even 3) with horrible aim/movement/connection/warp/ping when I'm semi-stacked, but that's just my opinion I suppose.

And no wonder why strenx is the online king, btw...

8-8-8 with cripple effect against 7-7-7 without it and with smaller hitboxes. Also rocket is better in QL than in Q3 so you can defend against it.

Even if QL's hitboxes were effectively smaller, it wouldn't change the fact that QL's LG is stronger by far, simply because it's ridiculously easier to hit in QL.

45% LG in Q3/OSP is godlike aim, whereas in QL it's the norm, any decent player can do it.

And yes, as I said, RL is also overpowered amigo (but it's less obvious if you have 80ms)

not in duel, which is what matters.

"it's still overpowered at 80ms..."

NO.

Lg is 90%ping 10%aim

I had some small lags and ping going from 65-69 all the time yesterday - lg 30 in CA 2v2. Stable 60 today - lg up to 40 against the same opponents
I guess it's because of this feedback mechanics: you hit better lg -> more knocback -> you hit better lg

That's not true at all with an unlagged netcode (hence all these players who believe that 50ms is the best ping for LG)

thats bullshit....

all these players dont take in consideration that higher ping means slower reaction time, putting a guy with 50 ping at disadvantage compared to 20 ping guy...

I'm not saying they are right, but it pretty much proves that LG isn't 'all ping' in QL.

IMO, the lower ping, the better. For LG and everything else (except RG)

On the other hand, it's clear that there is some sort of compensation when you have a high ping. For example, you can't dodge a 60ms+ LG; it's like your hitboxe is suddenly 3 times bigger.

No, it is the exact opposite: you can't dodge, with 60+ ping: your hitbox seems bigger, you see the beam floating around you and your healt evaporating

Conclusion: it's fucked up for everyone and LG is OP?

I don't know.
With the low tiers percentage, it doesn't seems overpowered; but with a good aim and a good ping it could certainly be abused;
The only conclusion i have is that if you don't have a good ( 50 or less) ping, it's better to don't play

Yeah thats why Strenx still rapes everyone at lg fights on lan

> overpowered at 80ms.
I heard high ping kinda aims for you.

"because Q3's LG is weaker than QL's LG by far."

LMAO.

"QL's LG is stronger by far, simply because it's ridiculously easier to hit in QL."

You wouldn't hit 40%+ in Q3 with your ping mate, you know it.

*cough* cpma *cough*

xerp

i think its 14 on the server i connect to

Didn't LG used to do more damage before they were nerfed in QL?

Yes, in Q3 it was 8 dmg per hit, 160 dmg per second.

Quakeworld shaft 0WNZ ya. : P

That's not shaft, that's rapid fire nuclear bomb launcher. :D 300 dmg per second, WTF!? o_O

fucking ridiculous

You mean fucking awesome, right? : )

ridiculously awesome

That's better.

I love it with Quad. So many gibs... ^^

And don't forget about the discharge effect. : P

i wonder why they nerfed it in other parts... stupid ID nerfing all weapons untill its no fun anymore

Tbh i prefer when everything is overpowered rather than opposite. Games feeling godlike this way, more randomz and funz.

e+

Be aware, the next one will be rail with 15 dmg.

still the RL is superior and more used.... you will never see strenx in quake world

Bulat naice aim

don't compare bulat to strenx man,

check it, interceptor has crazy lg.

http://challenge-tv.com/demos/view/26265

I want the OSP LG back. All you aim whores can suck it then and start from the beginning.

As mentioned in this thread OSP LG was more powerful, netcode was different (anything above 50ms was huge disadvantage, while in ql it's around 70)

no, don't ruin it for everyone! we be clearly inferior because we didn't play a terrible mod with built in lag and poor netcode

Nah, less powerful by far (and already dominant, btw)

Nevermind, I've read too fast.

Not less powerful then rail.

Hmm, I don't get this one (once again :D)

true that. It was kinda weird playing quake with rail dmg 100 again though. it really is a huge difference.

yes, the netcode was shitty and lg felt wobbly and it was god damnhard to aim but it felt good when you hit well. :)

overall, i still prefer ql though. i hit more airrockets in q3 though :/ atm i seem to have lost the ability to airrocket ppl. meh.

"overall, i still prefer ql though. i hit more airrockets in q3 though :/ atm i seem to have lost the ability to airrocket ppl. meh."

Same here. : (

I want VQ3 rockets. I was sooooooooooo much better with them.

Around 30 posts in, people are already fazzing that the subpar 1997 netcode used in q3 should be brought back. The whole gameplay is broken, deal with it and play qw.

no.

Play both. ^^

And DeFRaG.

Just remove the unlagged code and reduce the rocket splash radius. Then everything is fixed. It really is that simple.

I am an indie game developer who is thinking about making the best free to play FPS game ever (I would like the first version to be ready by the end of this year). If someone could explain to me, why do you people don't like the netcode in QLive?

I am playing Quake 3 for like 12 years and I like this new netcode. Now players with 20ms don't have that much advantage over people with 60 or more ms. Now the game is more fair for everyone. Why then?

I haven't played QuakeLive too much so maybe I've missed something?

you are talking true. now 20 vs 60 is playable, not like was in OSP.
QL netcode is realy great.

its not great, but its better than netcode made in 98

If it's not great, maybe you could tell me what is not so great about it? What you don't like in the current netcode?

y u so agressive? any netcode is bad, cause it will never be able to emulate LAN conditions

I am sorry if I have sounded aggressive to you :) I would just like to know your opinion. I thought that maybe you have an idea how to improve the netcode, since you were telling that it's bad.

Sorry once again, but I didn't know that asking questions can be perceived as aggression :)

im afraid it cant be improved by any means... well, maybe if everyone will get fibrewire to their homes it could be bettar

np:-)

any netcode is bad

Reason is because, if you have a low ping, and you turned a corner already on your screen, you can still get hit. The hit detection should be based on the server's known place of the player model, not the client. At the moment you can hit someone on your screen when you have 150ms, but on his screen he already turned that corner and is out of sight already for a long time, and he thinks he can't be shot.

It's unfair and simply fucked up for the lower ping player to not know if he can be hit or not. The hit detection should be serverside, not clientside.

edit: It's better to have a quality netcode for players with lower ping than try to make software fixes for what is a hardware issue (routing). This "unlagged" approach is really just stupid. High pingers probably prefer it, of course, but it lowers the overall quality of online play for sure. You can't fix the issue of high ping by plastering code into a program. It's a big issue caused by the routing technology we currently have. Instead of whining about high pings, just accept that the world's technology isn't perfect yet and try to get as good a connection as you can.

You said that the lower ping player don't know if he can be hit or not. It's exactly the same for the high ping player.

Imagine a player with 200ms ping. He is standing in front of a hole in a wall. He wants to hide behind the wall, so he presses the left arrow key. Since the client uses the movement prediction, the player thinks that he is moving immediately, but the server will know about the left arrow key being pressed after 200ms. So when the high ping player thinks that he is safe behind the wall, he is not.

Thanks to the netcode, the low ping player has exactly the same disadvantage. Now the gameplay is fair for both player.

Am I right? If not then please point me my mistake.

My point is that the hit detection shouldn't be about what's on your screen or any other player's screen. It should be based on the current position the server has of you and shouldn't use any "prediction" or "unlagged" bs, like you can see with cg_predictlocalrailshots in QL.

OK, but if my thinking is right it means, that now the game is fair for both players, no matter what ping they have.

That's why I can't understand your point. Why do you want the game to be unfair for players with high ping?

Do you have reading difficulties? Check the previous post with the "edit:" section.

You said in the EDIT part that the unlagged approach is "just stupid" and that it "lowers the overall quality of online play for sure". But how? If the netcode makes the game fair for everyone how it lowers the overall quality of online play?

Your argument about being hit when you are already around the corner is right. But this is exactly the disadvantage the high ping player have in a game without any unlagged code. Now the netcode makes it fair for everyone, and you don't like this.

That's why I can't understand this. Would you like the game to be unfair?

Maybe my thinking is wrong, and this netcode doesn't make the game fair for everyone, then please correct me.

Jesus. You can't make it "fair for everyone" unless you're on LAN because people have higher/lower pings due to routing (hardware) issues.

"But this is exactly the disadvantage the high ping player have in a game without any unlagged code. Now the netcode makes it fair for everyone, and you don't like this."

It doesn't make it "fair for everyone", it just makes it fucked up for everyone.

OK :)

he just wants to win with his low ping

there u go, I translated all he said

low ping vs low ping play is still the same, so just play low ping players, what is the problem? for a person with outstanding reading comprehension skills you should have been able to solve this issue by yourself.

You serious about your edit? Think about it what would happen to online leagues and the com (tdm, zotac, etc.)?! Forget nation cups, teams from russia, spain, italy etc. Not to mention other regions like south and north america. Btw. aren't u the same guy who wrote that aim guide because then your ideas don't suprise me at all :D

Cs was already unplayable with 50ms vs lowpingers whereas in quake both have advantages over the other one. Might not be the fairest solution but at least it allows our small com to have some decent online play.

Basically, unlagged is a joke and always was. It's for instagib newbs who wanna play with 110ms.

It screw up the weapon balance, give advantages to people with crap connections, etc...

The weapon balance is still the same for everyone.

How is this giving more advantage to people with crap connections? From my experience it's still harder to hit when you have higher ping. Where is the advantage?

His opinion is that Quake live sucks, don't bother.

Every opinion matters :)

there is no logical backing for preferring quake3's original netcode over quakelive's. the guy is a complete dumbfuck.

Learn to read then, genius, there's already a lot of arguments against unlagged exposed in this very thread.

Yeah, because criticizing the netcode equals saying the game itself is crap.

If you play QL with 25ms or less, you have an overpowered RL, an overpowered PG, an overpowered LG, and an unreliable RG (rails going through)

If you play QL with 45ms or more, you have a semi-decent RL, a semi-useless PG, an overpowered LG (still), and a very strong RG (misses are very often counted as hits, particularly if you have 60ms+)

That's like... 2 different games.

If you play QL on a crappy connection (lags, WiFi, torrents on, etc.) you don't even notice your own warp (QL is smooth), you're harder to hit and unlagged kinda aims for you. ;)

If you play QL on a crappy connection (lags, WiFi, torrents on, etc.) you don't even notice your own warp (QL is smooth), you're harder to hit and unlagged kinda aims for you. ;)

I have been playing for the past month on a terrible connection that spikes every 2-3 seconds to 150ms and drops back down to 30-40 and to me the game is smooth, until it randomly messes up my movement or drops packets for shots, but other than that if I shoot at someone I hit them, but I am more than positive my model looks absolutely horrible on their side, but to me everything is fine other than movement and random freezing due to the connection. but like I said if the connection is jacked up but doesn't keep me from moving around or randomly jerking me into a wall everything was fine hitting wise and smooth wise =P

If you play QL on a crappy connection (lags, WiFi, torrents on, etc.) you don't even notice your own warp (QL is smooth), you're harder to hit and unlagged kinda aims for you. ;)

This is bs. Perhaps the part about being harder to hit is true to some extent (I don't see many warpers myself) but still the outcome is that you get outaimed. I had a very sharp comparision 2 days ago so I'll write it down again specially for you.

Day one: tiny lags because of other wifi users, ping 65-69 - 30 lg in CA 2v2
Day two: clean connection, stable 60 ping - 40 lg in CA 2v2 against the same opponents
And it wasn't the matter of having bad day - I lg without hitbeep when my connection isn't clean so I know that I was aiming exactly the same.

"give advance to people with crap connection?"
You obviously never had to play with a crap connection, or you wouldn't talk that way

oh dear, here it goes again

there's nothing wrong with QL netcode. The end.

but omg its not cpm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it really isn't

cpma's netcode is much more consistent

:noted:

Even the creators of this World weren't able to make the netcode some people would like to see. There is a bug in the World. We call this bug "the speed of light". It's all because of this bug, so don't blame ID Software, blame the creators/creator of this World (if this World was created by someone to begin with) :)

Its about routing technology, not "creators of the world". Trolling is just a form of stupidity.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/06/120625133349.htm

Maybe in 10 years we'll have 50 ping to NA from central europe, who knows.

I know about routing, but the speed of light is part of the equation.

http://royal.pingdom.com/2007/06/01/theoretic...t-of-ping/

Anyway I was just kidding, if you didn't get the joke, then what can I say :)

Like I said.

OK :)

This currently seems to be a Western Europe versus Eastern Europe debate. It's not surprising either.

Eastern players never used to be able to play on Western servers and compete on OSP with a high ping. This never bothered Western players as they played with a low ping against mostly other low ping players in Western Europe. If you are a western European with a decent connection, you can remember how much better the netcode felt. (It may have been a wee bit "laggy" but it was predictable and was easy to learn to aim slightly in front) If you are Eastern, you probably prefer the new code as it works better for high pings.

Similarly Nordic players who were used to pinging 60- 80 ms on UK servers will likely prefer the change in netcode.

But in essence the online gaming experience is generally worse, it's just now you play against more people from further away.

To answer the entire fuckin' ping question is so embarassingly easy:
Go ask a pro player what ping he prefers, and WHY: Lan, 10, 20, 30, 50, 60, 100, 100+?
C'mon, go ask Rapha if he would like to play with 60 ping; or Cypher, or who do you want: Go! And you will shut up, then.

"To answer the entire fuckin' ping question is so embarassingly easy: "

No it's not.

The game is better on lower ping because you can shoot faster and move responsively, sure. But its still a problem if you're getting hit when you believe it shouldn't be possible. If both people have the same ping or playing on LAN then it's fine. But the fact It's possible for your opponent on his screen to hit you when you're not actually in sight according to real/server time, just because he's got a higher ping, is an undisputable problem (unless of course you like things to be wrong & "fair").

Go ask a pro player what ping he prefers, and WHY: Lan, 10, 20, 30, 50, 60, 100, 100+?
C'mon, go ask Rapha if he would like to play with 60 ping; or Cypher, or who do you want: Go! And you will shut up, then.

If you're gonna troll, at least make it interesting.

edit: btw, www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmv3L4th4jM&#t=8m35s

Try re reading what i wrote before.

...and go ask Tox if he prefer to play under 30 or 60 ping.

lmao @ Weird's one-sided view at netcode being supported by diabz :D

And tox apparently.

tox didn't attend DH summer because the last one wasn't played on LAN servers, therefore he contradicted himself just a couple of months afterwards lol.

he's not rly the technically educated person who realises how it works at least slightly :D
he also flamed timenudge for "aiming for you", said that it's like negative ping when you use it at lan and other stuff

I use my own brain to decide, not tox's. But this guy I replied to, "nex1" apparently can't use his own, so I posted a vid of tox, a high profile player, agreeing with my point.

The fact is that a higher ping player can hit you whenever you're on his screen, but a lower ping player can never know whether he's hittable or not. To me that's wrong, and the older way without unlagged (which is the code that causes this) was better. If you disagree that's fine, but I think its illogical if you do.

no.

The part tox and you don't seem to get is that this is what happened for years when you were both busy raping germans with a 40ms ping disadvantage.

"The fact is that a higher ping player can hit you whenever you're on his screen, but a lower ping player can never know whether he's hittable or not. To me that's wrong (...)"

You are absolutely right. It's wrong, I agree.

The thing is that the high ping player is exactly in the same situation. He can never know whether he is hittable or not, once again look at the example below (if I am wrong then point me where).

Imagine a player with 200ms ping. He is standing in front of a hole in a wall. He wants to hide behind the wall, so he presses the left arrow key. Since the client uses the movement prediction, the player thinks that he is moving immediately, but the server will know about the left arrow key being pressed after 200ms. So when the high ping player thinks that he is safe behind the wall, he is not.

Now thanks to the netcode you are both in the same situation. Without the netcode the low ping player has an advantage, because the high ping player is hittable when he thinks that he is save around the corner. There are more disadvantages of course (like the need to aim with prediction).

Any game that is unfair is not worth playing for me (I mean it's not so fun) :) We should accept the paradoxes of the netcode, because it makes the rules fair/equal/same for everyone. That's just my opinion :)

it doesn't matter if tox isn't a technically educated person.
His feelings are correct (and also similar to mine).
Problem is I'm a software engineer and I've read the q3 code.... talked to the devs about it untill they got tired of it.... and after that I started to whine ingame/here about netcode issues.

they say being angry all the time makes you old before time

nah I got grey cuz of another event which happened well before quakelive which I don't want to discuss.

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2011/08August/Pages/st...amage.aspx

blame netcode

well the research might be right but like I said I was grey a long time before ql...

wikipedia says premature grey hair is caused by albinism, werner syndrome, malnutrition, smoking, pernicious anemia and vitiligo.

Were you black a couple years ago? 60 years old body age? netcode raging?

I guess wikipedia makes you an authority on my health

unlagged is needed for online play, unless there were 52 LANs per year that I could attend to, ideally local, but that's not the case

99.9 % of all QL games are played online, probably 90% with a ping between 30 and 70

my guesstimate would be a lot more than 99.9 % closer to 99.999% even probably


Is there any way to view how many games played total?

you could try ask sponge on #quakelive

from time to time he posts some quakelive related stats, so he might have that number too

Nice articles about the netcode (not QLive though):
http://www.ra.is/unlagged/ (the whole site)
http://www.ra.is/unlagged/faq.html

This guy knows what he is talking about, I have made one network game (www.ball3d.com) so I can confirm some of the stuff he is talking about.

It's a nice lecture :)

Check cpma's (q3 mod) netcode. better for higher pings and feels more consistent on low pings in general as well.

I don't have the most evil of Internet connections, but it really is sporadic sometimes. It's not unusual for my ping to fluctuate between 100 and 150, which does terrible things to my rail aim.

Unlagged 1.0 was an attempt to fix that

Haha, this is the first time I read this and that's exactly what I thought and wrote yesterday. This guy is a joke and so is his netcode made for instagib newbs and casual players who wanna play overseas.

more like welcome to 2001 when pinging 80 was good.

still good.

you prediction is augmented

me botsta.

so you're actually a turkish urt player ?

lol no my brains augmented with projectile bots and a half broken timing bot :3

LG 3d x 2

http://i.minus.com/iH8aOpXstddxg.gif

my life is now complete

reddit

pretty solid 90% LG here

Was the cpma netcode (without xerp) better than the current ql netcode or the same?

What people mean by cpma netcode is xerp 1 laghax -1 so there kinda no point discussing it, unless you like the xerp 0 laghax -1 epileptic fest.

pretty much the same.

Not really. Shots behind your opponent happened too but not as often imo. Or maybe it's the fact that I started playing cpm when the switch to cpma vq3 was made and I can't judge all that well. But afaik laghax is not unlagged, rather arqon's serverside assisted nudge.

here's the explanation if anyone is bothered - http://www.esreality.com/post/2211076/#pid2211082

http://esreality.com/post/2280518/lg-damage/#pid2283022