At first I thought I should hurry up and jump on the shootmania bandwagon cuz i thought it would be big and all. Then after some backthoughts and a few games on the alpha I realized it was just going to be a plain flop because of how much it sucks...

Explain why you think it sucks?

please

Can't bind mouse2 +forward :{.

This is like asking me to explain why troll 4 was a bad movie:

I don't feel like explaining why, it just is bad. I'm pretty sure some people have already stated the reasons why. It was a terrible experience: the lack of configurable settings, the maps, the graphics, the dumbed down gameplay, the shit weapons... Could go on

why would you even watch troll 4 in the first place

it simply is not fun to play. (or watch, since that seems to matter around these parts too)

You're so full of it higgs ;)

You've "played" the game? Give me a rundown. I'm curious. (if you have time...)

colwn still wins

Because after playing Quake it feels like yet another incredibly cheap game.

Some of the maps in this event really don't have a lot of strategy to them, for example Archways is extremely linear and very open for attack, forcing defense to just hug the flag constantly. The maps aren't drop or pick either, it's just a set order that all teams play. I think that works in favor of some teams, it definitely didn't help Merc Ops. Same goes for SolarFlare, that map isn't liked by a lot of higher level SM players. Crossroads is the only open map in that pool that actually works.

TheCastle isn't played a lot either, since it's the last map in the order. That map a long with Collided are better suited for this game, if you want to be cheeky and hide on D you can, if you want to be hectic and all over the place on offense you can, if you want to rush your D and put pressure without being in the open completely, you can. It's a good map. Some matches are dull because of the maps (in my opinion).

I can see at least two of the maps in the pool being dropped from events soon, or better maps put in. The order of the maps changes for the finals of each group, so hopefully that will make it a bit better.

strategy in a shootmania thread. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz. why dont u seriously give it up?

Because people actually care about this game and I'm not giving into this giant "shootmania is shit" ESR movement. They can think whatever they want, and post and flood threads with negative shit, that doesn't mean it's hated by everyone. ESR is a minority compared to other sites, bitter Quake players holding onto the game as long as they can and being completely ignorant to anything else. Every other community is being open and positive about this game, not this one. Just because people are loud and assholes doesn't mean their right.

just because we're loud assholes doesn't mean we're wrong.

note: I LOVE SHOOTMANIA. PLZ DONT BAN

the point isn't that you're wrong, I prefer QuakeLive, by far. the point is that being a loud asshole prevents communication and progress. ShootMania can learn from QL and SM players, but not from loud assholes.

Do you think QL is better game than SM or not?

it's a different game and it's still alpha

playing the alpha card much? Its is what it is, do you want to judge it in base of what it will become? LOL

Can't be serious.

This is one of the simplest FPS games I've ever seen and it is incredibly boring to watch. Play? I don't know...I haven't so I'm not gonna say it is shit yet. There is no way this game, at its state, could have much strategy to it.

The state of gaming is getting worse and worse. Of course people are enjoying Shootmania...it should be called SIMPLEmania. Everything is so overly simplified for the casual gamer...

This sums it up pretty well:
"I watched some of the tournament now and the game just seems overly simplistic with none of the dimensions (map control, items, weapon choice) that make Quake so great. Imagine a player like Rapha playing this .. He's brilliant in these aspects in Quake but I suspect he would be almost indistinguishable from most other players in Shootmania."


Also, wtf is with these english commentators? Did he just say "noms the rocket" ???

I'm sure QW players said the same about 1.6, (or earlier versions), it's a different game and times change. Just because it's different doesn't mean it's bad, people might not like it but that's understandable.

Also I'm pretty sure that caster came from LoL or something, not sure, but he's played it a bit and watched Quake from what I can tell.

I don't know what the early versions of CS were like...but surely it had more than 2 guns. More than a 2shots=kill. More than a simple armor and health system. Can I assume they had the money/buy system in early CS as well?

I really don't think you can compare the two...

It's just sad that PRO ESPORTS games have gotten so dull like this. I hate seeing such talented players playing a game like this...but if this is what they want to do then I wouldn't tell them not to play it.

As much as I like the quakers who are playing this game (as people and gamers) I can't see myself following them as closely as I have in Quake...best of luck to them though.

At this point the game isn't really in a demand, ubisoft is just putting the money out there for tournaments and events. RIOT does the same and that's part of the reason LoL is so popular. Sundance from MLG said on twitter recently that he wished ID software did the same, we could of seen a lot more Quake and a different scene than what it is now (the players at Dreamhack were sad compared to previous years).

This whole thing could fizzle out once the money is stopped being put into it. Who knows (I agree it was an unfair comparison slightly, but my point was just that one community doesn't like another game because it's deemed "less skillful" than theirs)

k

I hate it when people compare quake to chess, but if you introduce frenchmania to the equation the comparison is apt.

I hate that comparison too....
Mekes look all the quakers pathetic to the normal peoples

comparison makes sense as both in chess and quake you always have to try and predict your opponents decisions, adjust your's accordingly and always think ahead as much as you can. also I can't see how associating anything or anyone with chess makes it/him pathetic. it's a game of kings. anyone for a chess game?

Yeah, exactly. Which is why it's pathetic to compare a game in which half the time you have an A decision, 40% of the time you have an A or B decision and 10% of the time you have an A, B or C decision to a game that has... what?.. 10 options on every decision?

Quake can be beaten by a computer, chess cannot. Or atleast not in the same manner.

to find elements of sth more advanced and exquisite in sth simpler and common (chess/quake) is an insult to neither imho.

But that's not the same as comparing them. A phone and a car both have screws, but you don't go on comparing them, do you?

ok the word comparison is a bit unfortunate i admit:] but you get my point i hope as I never said for example that quake is chess of video games (which would be pretty stupid, yeah)

I think I get your point, still I don't like "chess" being thrown around with "quake". I don't think it does chess justice ;].

You play CPM, no shit you can't compare them fairly ;]

computers can beat humans in both quake and chess. duh!

for the reasons mentioned, and also because you can win in quake only aimraping, and you cannot deny this, mostly at low levels, but even at the pro's levels; also chess are abstracts, pure, in quake you can make mistakes, a lot of mistakes, and still win;
1 in quake it doesn't count only the brain: if you don't have aim, you are fucked.
2 If you don't have a good hardware, you cannot express your potential;
3 if you don't have a good connection, you cannot express your potential;
4 if you don't know how to set the cfg and the hud properly, you cannot express your potential;
5 in quake you can use aimbots, wallhacks, item timers, radars, autotriggers

I'm a chess player, i like chess, and i like more quake; but they cannot be compared at all.

that's why I said that the word 'comparison' was the problem here. I also am a chess player (not a very good one but I enjoy the game, just like quake:]) and can see how the respect for that game can make the 'comparison' stupid, but I already stated that that wasn't my point.

this pic actually makes no sense since you cant check a king with a king.
shows how quakers were the future of esports and made shootmania. gg.

the joke is you can't check a king with a king

He won't get it, don't even try. :)

Ah, you have come.

Thanks, what this picture really needed was a defensive post by SM fanatics.

Can't plus enough.

epic win pic

the funding/support of competitive accounts for <1% of their market. the game is popular because it's:


free
easily approachable
enjoyable at any skill level
runs on a toaster

"the funding/support of competitive accounts for <1% of their market."

what is this i dont even.......

its in alpha. lets not talk about its popularity until its released and people get to try it out. k thx bye.

read what im replying to dumbfuck

my bad. it wasnt clear from ur post but still i thought u were replying to sm because my theme doesnt make the indentation very clear. only gripe i have with citys theme.

its ok baby

Just because it's different doesn't mean it's bad, people might not like it but that's understandable.

In no way does it seem that you think it's understandable. In fact, it seems like people are attacking your right to breathe and you're reading to sell your mother just to defend your right to it.

You don't care about the game, you are a competition whore. You'd play mylittlepony if it had a crosshair and enough players.

Last time I checked most top players have played other games in tournaments too (Quake 3, Quake 4, DOOM3, Painkiller, Warsow, UT2k4/99)

problem?

Check your list again and tell me how many games were played by top players for another reason than money. I can only count 2 of them.

I really don't care, it's about the competition. No ones getting paid to play Shootmania unless it's prize money. Anything else is fabricated bullshit and ESR should just shut the fuck up about it.

so we're back to http://esreality.com/post/2281947/#pid2281113

Can't wait to see what's up your sleeve because that was way too easy.

Why is it such a huge fucking problem to leave Quake? You think any top player is going to stick around for a dead game when there's a similar game with actual competition and money behind it? Stop treating players like they HAVE to play Quake or else their abandoning their fans. Winz came from UT2k4. Grubby switched to SC2. Get the fuck over your egos

Never had a problem with people leaving quake. I'm just saying that as usual, you forget the difference between top and competitive player.
A top player has a incentive to play a shitty game : money.
A competitive player on the other hand should enjoy competiting in a game he likes, not just for the sake of mindless competition.

You're the second. Stop trying to use the first case to justify your behaviour.

You're wrong because your definition of a competitive player is wrong. Their the same as a top player except for skill/money/sponsorships.

Stop trying to create bullshit definitions to prove your point. Get the fuck over it man

Do you really think the lads who play soccer every sunday in the local team and often travel a few hours to play another small team do it only because they like competition ?

you can stop arguing about it because nothing you or anyone else says is going to stop people from switching games. It's happened before and it's going to happen again, now be a big boy about it and stop acting like a bitch

Jesus fuck, scroll up, find a post in which I boohoo complain that people are switching games. Maybe after reading them all again a dozen times to make sure you didn't miss it you'll finally understand what I'm saying.

This is the part where you shut the fuck up fyi

No, that's the part where you admit you'd play mlp online if it had a 256 players tournament every sunday.

by that judgement I'd be playing league of legends seriously and I'm not. like I said you can fuck off at any time bitter quaker

That kinda ruined my tea break a little bit :(

What do you call it when "everybody wins"?

what is that supposed to mean

I'm saying there was "prizemoney" for everyone which effectively means that it was a salary.

No because salary is static, prize money is dynamic (depending on placement)

I don't understand the point you're trying to make here.

Then think of it as a 900 euro base salary with bonuses.

Anyway - no point, just nitpicking. Sorry.

oh yeah, nice prizemoney there, if colwn even finished last they'd get the most cash cause it was arranged before the tournament. :D same as how last place got more then 5th place cause travel expenses.

competition my ass. it's all rigged and obvious that if nadeo didn't pay top players from other games in such a way that no one would actually play or provide testaments on how good and fun FM is.

name the other communities you speak of

The game itself aside, I don't like being lied to... and watching a pair of french casters feign enthusiasm, literally smiling for 6 hours straight, while listening to some less feigned but equally overhyped enthusiastic commentary by our south african friends, coupled with the fact that for some reason eSports requires some dancers between matches... I felt lied to... in the same way that one feels lied to when telecom companies, or banks bathe you in their self-righteousness.

Surely one can only hype something with false enthusiasm so far before the "lies" collapse under their own weight? I thought the initial presentation match, with Joe and TotalBiscuit pretending they were casting some Q3 Eurocup LAN was pushing it enough...

Are we really supposed to believe the caster is actually *THAT* surprised when a player with 10+ years of professional FPS gaming at the highest level under his belt makes a minimal flick-rail or prediciton rocket?

The most amazing part of the whole tournament were the occasional cunning tactical detours that noctis took in an attempt to surprise the enemy, and they were practically ignored.

Props to the casters and all that for doing what is probably a hard job but personally I find it insulting to be bombarded left right and center by overhype after overhype after overhype... please, calm down, try and cast the strategic aspects of Shootmania, if there are any, but this over the top play -by-play-OH.-MY.-GOD.-shenanegans have to stop if you want to stop being the center of ridicule of the QL community and possible a couple of other communities.

Not that you really care.. just sayin'

just have a [+], no comments

thanks for sharing your thoughts

any time bra

why did you put that post in the shootmania trll thread? he isnt mindlessly bashing the game.

"The game itself aside, I don't like being lied to... I felt lied to... "

"Surely one can only hype something with false enthusiasm so far before the "lies" collapse under their own weight?"

implying other peoples enthusiasm is a lie because one doesn't share it, is rather mindless and insulting

picking out single words out of a post can always look bad. he has a point tho.

saying that his post is insulting is way over the top, as i am sure you are aware.

there's the same amount of trash talk in EVERY quake-event-thread. quakecon, iem, maybe people go easier on dreamhack, but thats about it. why is it important that the shootmania-threads are criticism-free?

his post is insulting, if you don't see it, it's because you're not a SM caster or someone enthusiastic about the game, try to put yourself in their shoes and read that post telling you how you are lying because you are enthusiastic.

it is important that they are insulting criticisms free because I want SM people to feel comfortable on this site, reading their news, and they are not.

What's insulting to me is that you want SM people to feel comfortable at quakers' expense, protecting them from opinions.

lol, it's not quakers' expense to not have their ridiculous bigoted uninformed arrogant opinions not to outnumber actual topical SM posts 100 to 1.

Yes good idea, alienate the main user base of this site by not allowing them to express their distaste of a shit game because 4 or 5 people might be offended.

yeah, why is it not working? any idea what I can do to alienate them more from the SM threads so that the 4 or 5 people are not offended?

Why don't you just fade back into obscurity, I don't recall you ever taking an active role in trying to ruin this website until a few months ago.

because trying to have the base of this website allow the base of this website to grow is not ruining this website, *nuked*

holy shit, god forbid players of other game come to this website to read and chat about their game, this is ruining everything!!! all this quake content is still there, but ooh, is it so ruined by this shootmania crap right below it!!! ooh booohooo

god forbid players of other game come to this website to read and chat about their game

god forbid anybody else chats about their game

too bad they're not chatting, they're puking and shitting on their heads and game at such an overwhelming rate, they all sink in shit.

Atleast jamerio contributes unintentional humour. You're the annoying uncle at family gathering everybody else wants to shut the fuck up and leave.

hey, how about you shut the fuck up and leave instead? you're nobody to speak for thousands of ESR users and contributers, many of which I help every day. all you ever do is post retarded ascii spam. yeah that's so much better than running a website and contributing content, which I do. just based on technical stuff, if I leave, you wouldn't have an actual website to post your retarded ascii spam on, are you sure you'd like that?

I'd like you stick with the technical side and contributing content, just
stop whatever the fuck you started doing back in 2011. This thread is your intervention. As a moderator the line you've chosen makes way less sense than any of the ascii dicks I've ever posted.

all admins and vast majority of users agree with what i started back in 2011, and those weren't even my idea to begin with. for years i have argued for more relaxed moderation, against sujoy and then admins. however, a long time after those admins left, after a ton of moderate, polite, contributors left in large part due to the level of discourse on this site, it became hard to deny what was wrong with the site, and it's the overwhelming, non-moderated, unproductive hostility towards those who contribute. all admins and the vast majority of users (not the vocal ones, who are the problem) agree with this, and it makes sense to them.

in conclusion, you are the cancer that is killing this website. so why don't you shut the fuck up and leave?

all admins and vast majority of users agree with what i started back in 2011

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all admins and the vast majority of users (not the vocal ones, who are the problem) agree with this

Yeah I don't see that. Not in this thread atleast. Even your newly formed admin fazz said he wants everybody to be able speak their mind. Oh and how confuckingvenient that the silent types agree with you to gain majority. Otherwise it looks like you're completely alone.

And the cancer in this rockstar junkie site is so spread that if you want to cure it you have to sever the head from the body. Or you could let it have the drug which made it notorious for as many days as it has left. It may OD or it may turn out to be Keith Richards but either way it won't be as sad as turning into a boyband of which there are plenty.

the stones did exactly that lol. They ripped off what was popular at several eras, not only the beatles but also disco (yep) and several blues songs just to stay on the business.

Well tbh rock isn't my thing so it could be a fail analogy but let me try and save it by saying that that doesn't seem like a boyband to me. They still played instruments and wrote their own songs for people of all ages, not girls 14-16, no?

BSB wasn't that bad

Actually NKOTB weren't bad, BSB were shit.

Why do you keep saying the site would die if it were not for you?

It actually shows how you pretty much devalue the entire reader base and people get that in other ways which leads to dysfunctional behavior and lack of content.

Nobody with a basic grasp of php and sql is falling for that nonsense.

When it has been the status quo for years it actually is at their expense. You can say there is no freedom of speech here but we all know that you're forgetting the "anymore" at the end of the sentence. For years there was no problem with voting 0 movies you hadn't watched or "lol @ 17 people" comments, trolling spaniards and poles. But the french? Sacre blue!

you don't troll the frenchies. But frenchies troll you.

I thought you liked shootmania.

yeah i like it

your memory seems to be extremely selective, and if discretion and inability to flame and be a dick is an expense to you, excuse me while I shed no tear.

your memory seems to be extremely selective

That may well be true as I have no idea what you're referring to. Elaborate please!

well, we had threads deleted, locked, posts deleted on massive scale. remember the Carmac and pope flaming, for instance

Registered: 5 Jun 2006

plz go into the thread of the last 2gdstudio episode and clean up all the posts about 2gd, since i am afraid he would be insulted.

1) Are you implying that esports fans are never lied to?

2) Are you implying that commentator\announcer excitement cannot be fake?

3) Are you implying that things in esports haven't "collapsed under their weight"?

4) Are you implying that one, based on his opinion about a certain game\broadcast, can't discuss the 1-3 points freely on ESR and this is the new policy?

no * 4

How was melenchech's post not simply exercising his right to do 4) ?

i moved the post, not deleted it

So the new policy is that you can do 4), but if you do, you're going to be moved to this thread?

That's not exactly "discussing freely".

How fucking classy. This is bullshit.

This just continuously shows that Russian immigrants should be deported back to Russia and kept there due to inability to integrate themselves into human society due to lack of a soul after the fall of the USSR. ")))))))))))))".

p.s. actual Russians are allright, it's just most people that immigrate for non-professional reasons, coming from a small village in Siberia and end up in New York (or London per se), end up flipping out like "THERE IS A WHOLE SECTION IN SUPERMARKET WITH DIFFERENT TYPES OF CHEESE? ZOMG IN SOVIET RUSSIA THERE ARE ONLY TWO TYPES OF CHEESE FOR SALE... "CHEESE FOR THE HEADS OF THE PROLETARIAT" and "STALE CHEESE FOR THE WORKING MASSES".

You can spot an immigrant like that from a mile away, even years after they moved, by their profound xenophobia and patriotism for whichever ex-USSR state they came from, as well as crude and outdated ideals on anything such as gender roles, working classes, even product placement for the car they buy or something, and especially all topics involving Russia and Putin))). Oh and the most annoying thing is: they don't use the Chernobyl smiley ")))" which, at least for me, is the biggest reason I can't stand the fuckers)))

))))))))))))))

THAT"S ALL COOL AND ALL AS LONG AS WE ESTABLISH SHOOTMANIA IS WORKING MASSES CHEESE AND QUAKE X IS APPARATCHIK CHEESE OKAY BRAT) )))

Fuck you now i'm hungry.

phil asked yesterday why you drink beer like hobo

I told him it's fun and his redneck brain couldn't comprehend the complexity.

Probly too fat to hop on a bike anyway))

why not just stop paying attention to this bullshit? the less attention it gets, the faster will it go away, just like trolls do.

stop whining, stop discussing it, problem solved.

if you people actually want to hurt frenchmania, just ignore it.

set your filters to block out the news, put game devs on block on this site, etc, and problem solved.

as far as i'm concerned, i won't do any of that cause i just love talking shit about everything a bit too much.

Let's make a deal

Users are allowed to contribute SM related news/info, for the price of implementing the [-] button.

Too much [-] results in hidden/unmajored thread.

That [-] button is what ESR trully needs!
really

no. my self esteem is too fragile enough as it is.

I don't like shootmania because it is taking attention away from QL.

Also why are you getting so worked up about people shitting on shootmania?

Saying casters and players are showing fake enthusiasm is insulting?

Even when players themselves admit they dislike game they are paid to play?

http://www.esreality.com/post/2267575/#pid2267630

They have made changes to the Elite mode (the 3v3 gametype) that is a dealbreaker for me though.

Dealbreaker, but he still plays it. Why? Maybe for money... but saying that would be an insult, right?

if he SAYS he did so, it wouldn't. but this CAN'T be assumed, or implied with no basis, solely based on personal tastes.

posting in lol thread

nobody likes your spam, how about you shut the fuck up and leave?

why don't you? :)

you first

as they say, age before beauty.

Hey, I like his spam :c

How fast do you think he would ban someone who tells that to the author of a SM post?

either this is biased admin shit or some new found sense of entitlement for "protecting the poor", there is no other explanation for it.

because for as long as i've been on this site (not long compared to others), i've seen literally dozens of threads shitting on different games, events, initiatives etc. never EVER have i seen the subject that ppl shit on being protected exclusively by an admin.

not to mention users who have posted nothing but spam for MONTHS (raythenoob, dutra) shitting on quake, id, everybody playing quake and so on. where were the over protective admins then?

yep, this is censorship.

yes, this is censorship, and it's new, and it' not 'entitlement', it's called 'tolerance and constructivism', and it won't necessary continue, I am waiting on some feedback on that.
do you not see how all these showers of shit have only resulted in negativity and destruction? do you not see whats going to happen to this website if nothing is done about it now, that a new game is being developed that might be potentially huge for esports, bigger than QL ever could be and how being constructive and cooperating with this new movement would only stand to benefit everyone and quakers?

i understand where you are coming from.

but selectively protecting one thing while everything else is fair game will do nothing else than alienate the user base of this site; i really can't see how this can be a good thing. the way i see it, either make up some posting rules (no flaming, no trolling, etc) and delete/move everything that is in direct violation of those rules or allow full freedom of speech.

i think one of the defining characteristics of esr is exactly this freedom of speech. you can troll, flame, write bullshit, vent etc and i'm pretty sure this is one of the reasons many people come back to this site.

but selectively protecting something is the worst possible solution imo. it's your site so you can do whatever you like with it, but think about it.

The thing is, not only it's impossible to delete/move or control everything, that's just not necessary, and you have to explain why would that 'alienate' anyone from the actual website?

All I want is for SM players to read their news and be able to chat about SM in there. I don't care, and I think those users wouldn't care if SM is getting flamed in another thread. But you can't have someone post an interview, or coverage post, and have all the potential coverage news readers wade through 100 posts telling them the game is shit, they are not coming to this website again.

And this is not my site, I'm just an admin at the moment, so I should do things that I think benefit the site, whether the users realize it or not. I wouldn't be doing something if someone convinced me it's wrong, or someone who I generally respect disagreed. And this hasn't happened, maybe some admins are too shy, but everyone on this website, and on other websites agrees with my premises I am basing my decisions on, if not the actual decision.

Why don't you write some new guidelines? For example "1. No game bashing".

and you have to explain why would that 'alienate' anyone from the actual website?

because such actions are seen as unfair. while everything else gets the same treatment, shootmania (in this case) is exclusively protected by the admins. don't you see how this will result in even more hate towards the SM community? or people saying "fuck this biased website" and stop contributing content and posting?

yes, today you'll save some people from having to "wade through 100 posts", but in the long run it will do more harm than good, imo.

it's not about censorship, it's about the same treatment for everybody. if everybody was equally censored (or equally allowed to say what they think) there would be no problem.

Shootmania players will be reading shootmania news on shootmania/nadeo related websites.
Esr is a relic of the 90's. They won't be coming here whatever you do.
If you want that global esport website to happen, you could either have stepped up years ago or you could gtfo, run your own website and let esr rot.

Most people under 25 are not even able to understand how threads are formatted ffs.

huh? it's already happened as a global esports website. this is another stepping stone, and ESR won't be allowed to rot.

You're 5 years too late. Have fun with your teamliquid ripoff.

it's not late, or early, because this combination of circumstances hasn't arisen before. 5 years ago, then admins actions would have been very similar.

Seriously this. Fuck tl and fuck anyone trying to turn esr into it

If you want for SM players to read their news and not be distracted by ESR audience, then you should simply not mark SM as a major news. It is exactly by majoring SM, you tell us that the news is globally important and you want everyone's comment, not just people who are interested in specific SM news. So I don't think there is basis for you to complain about negative comments. If you actively invite everybody to discuss, then obviously you'll get everybody's opinion, including not only SM fans, but also people who may have negative opinion about SM. What else you expect?
You want to have closed reservation for SM players, and at the same time you want it to be globally present on front page for everyone. Those things are simply incompatible.

no, they're completely compatible. you are not invited to like every major news item. and major news doesn't mean 'major for everyone'.

As long as it is on front page for everyone, everyone considers it important. And of course no one is invited to like anything, that's why some news get many dislikeful comments, and that's actually how it should be: whatever you want to share with all visitors, gets response also from all visitors, not only from those who are fans of it.
Basically, the problem is that you want ESR visitors to be some generic "esports fans" who are nice and polite and accept anything you give to them, but in reality, ESR visitors are small group of hardcore FPS fans, and you have to live with it and accept it, because it won't ever change. And it's them who will respond to all news, not some nice generic fans, and you have to take this in account when trying to cover various esports games.

what you're saying is that I want everyone to be alike. no, what I want is for different 'esports fans' to co-exist. i have no problem accepting that we have hardcore FPS fans. It's just that those hardcore FPS fans need to live with and accept non-hardcore FPS fans, because without the later, you can't have the former, as the decline of this website throughout the years shows.

Accepting doesn't mean to be positive about them. If you want SM fans to coexist in same place as hardcore FPS fans, you have to accept that they will get comments from them (and vice versa), many of which will be negative. You need to have boths sides accepting existence and opinions (positive or negative) of each other, or else it is not coexistence in any sense of the word.
There wasn't really a "decline" of ESR. There was a transformation from general esports site to a site of hardcore FPS fans. This is what it's turned out to be, despite all intentions. It is doing perfectly fine now, and there is no need or possibility to change it to something else. You will not get any new visitors from other games, and by ruining this website as a hardcore FPS fans platform, you will get rid of existing visitors as well.

you really have zero basis for pretty much all of your statements there, you basically just made it all up without the slightest idea as to how things work.

no u

I don't have a problem with the game itself. The whole 'shallow strategy/shitty weapons' issue isn't a big deal. If someone enjoys that shit, more power to them. I do have a problem with people pretending that this game is something that it isn't.

Yeah, it will might have a few tourneys. So did Doom 3. So did Quake 4. So did Painkiller. So did Carom3D. So do cell phone games. Anyone who takes a look at the game for 2 minutes can tell that this neither has the depth to interest competitive players, nor the wow-factor to lull your average casual gamer.

The absurd attempts to defend the game, along with the attempted censorship, only add to the fire. Despite the love for Quake on this site, even it hasn't gotten the shield from criticism that Shootmania is getting. This can only mean either extreme bias, or a payoff.

Arguments that we should embrace the game in the hopes to lure over people who play it to QL were completely absent when UT3 was released. Criticism, and straight up hatred were completely tolerated. The same has gone for CS, SC2, LoL, etc... If this is a "community" website, then the community should be free to shape the dialogue as they please - for good, or for bad. Did you see me asking for censorship when people shit on the SCBW coverage I contributed? No. I directed them to the filter setting, and I moved on. I stopped contributing because THERE IS NO DEMAND FOR IT HERE. Much the same, there is no demand for Shootmania. Continued attempts at forcing it on the community will only fracture what little support it had.

Spot on

no one is forcing you to embrace anything. the news posts, like any other content, is for those who want to read it. if you don't, if you don't like the game, move on.

Please implement [-]

it's already been implemented, and all it did was drop *everything* to negative infinity. what you need to do when you feel [-] is shut the fuck up and move on.

[-]

try again.

No one is forcing anyone to read my comment, and everyone is free to use the ignore function. You must have missed the part where I pointed out that I don't really care one way or the other about the game itself - I care about the misrepresentation. You'll find that I have the same problems with QL.

An avalanche of cloned comments in an echo chamber fashion blocks any productive discussion. A news item is required to be unique.

ur not just moving the obvious trolls tho. ur moving most negative comments some of which are simpe truth. having a bunch of "omg this is a great game i love the fact that all the quake pros are playing it, this is the future of esports" cloned comments is as far away from productive discussion as the troll posts.

If someone feels as such, they are free to use the ignore function. Productive discussion is for the community/individuals to decide. If enough people on the site WANT Shootmania, it will reflect it in the discussion. Either this is a community site, or it isn't. Either there are clear rules, or there aren't.

If you want to try to keep changing the rules, without ever actually defining them to begin with, you can expect more of the same vocal outcry in the future. You should probably make your intentions crystal clear, or step down.

I have made my intentions crystal clear many times, as well as the rules. My intentions are to facilitate an environment for the growth of the community of like-minded competitive gamers. This means not a community of Quakers, or of Vedic. This means the community/individuals can NOT decide to ostracize another community/individual. SM is a young game that I see being forced out of this website in an angry-mob fashion.

i'll repeat: i've seen many communities and individuals ostracized on this website without special admin protection, many many times.

so what are the rules you just invented 3 days ago?

1. don't ostracize SM
2. else do whatever you want

am i correct?

not exactly:

1. don't ostracize

so esr is now a heavily moderated website?

has been for a long time

if it has been heavily moderated for a long time, why do i see troll comments in almost every thread or news item?

but you know what? you could back up your stated lack of bias by cleaning up the forums first (i.e. removing ALL troll and non constructive comments in ALL threads) and then keeping them that way.

some trolls entertain each other, and some users enjoy that. id welcome it if you can report cases where you think there is user abuse, I can't patrol every thread.

aha, so either you don't want or can't be bothered to enforce your own rules, except when it comes to SM.

this is obvious bias.

edit: and saying things like these rules are valid here but not there, by making up reasons like "some trolls entertain each other" only understate that those rules are no rules at all, but are just a made up justification for your actions. a rule should be applied equally to everybody.

huh? i can not physically patrol every post on this website.

like i said, feel free to report a user or a group of users being ostracized on this website.

i won't report anything since i think censorship is bullshit.

YOU are the one making up rules. so enforce them. or don't pretend they apply equally to everybody.

100% enforcement isn't physically possible

No, but it's certainly a goal to strive for. You have other admins, and you have moderators. You can make new moderators, and remove the ones who you believe aren't doing their job.

Since this is a community site, maybe the community should have a vote on which administrators we believe aren't doing their job. Who do you think would come out on top?

this is not a community owned or managed site, it simply provides certain abilities to the community. the community doesn't have the slightest clue as to what the job is. you can fuck off with you democracy to redneckistan, florida.

If Sujoy's "admin guidelines" are to be followed, I would think that the part that says:

The most important rule about being an admin on ESReality, is that it does not make you more important than other readers.

... is quite relevant. If Sujoy's rules are not the current rules, please point me to their new location. If these are the rules, then the community needs to feel that the administration is capable of understanding, and enforcing them. Such a poll, with the name of every admin, would be a great way to assist in locating the current problem.

no it wouldn't. that statement has nothing to do with what community needs to feel.

I was pointing out what you need in order to stop people from leaving this site, because the administration isn't following the rules, and enforcing things on a whim. You said that you can't patrol every post on the website, which is what additional admins are for. Either they aren't doing their job, or you aren't doing your job. If you are doing your job, then this will be a great way for you to get rid of those who aren't, since you don't seem to be able to administrate your other admins on your own. If you aren't doing your job, then shouldn't you step down?

we're all doing our job in my opinion. you think there is a problem? there isn't. i can't force you to report abusive posts any better than i can force admins to look for them better. i will "step down" the moment there is someone who will "step up".

If you are all doing your job, then why has there been a complete failure of enforcement for years? You most certainly can remove/enlist admins, and if you believe that everyone has been doing their job, then you must also believe that they were doing their job when they didn't take any actions in the Shootmania discussion. Thus far, it's all been you. Either the collective sum of your admins failed to moderate the thread, or you did.

Why would someone need to "step up" in your place? This community has been self-moderating for many years. What would you say... ya do here?

so you have no idea whats going on? okey. moderation is a very small part of what head and site admins do. if there are not enough people who can be trusted to be user admins, there is nothing I can do about it.

Yes, that's what user admins/site admins are for - and it should be your job to make sure that they are doing their job. Again, you said that they ARE doing their job - so that can only mean that you weren't doing your job when you moderated the Shootmania thread. Which is it?

nice false dichotomy. the truth is that none of this is a real job, all admins are volunteers. everyone is doing the best job they want, people are promoted best on how much effort/time/ability they have. it's not my job to force admins or users do anything, I can only encourage them. there are not enough people and they do not have enough time to do 100% enforcement, and this is nobodies fault.

yes but there has been 0% enforcement of your newly found rules, until now.

not 10%, not 20%, 0%. there were 2 bans of spammers, but that was it. no special admin protection of anything.

yes there have. if you don't see it, it means it's done well.

then point me to one such protected thread in the last year please.

dude, you can't see whats deleted, that's the point.

Straw man - I never said that it was a "real job", I said that you have a job, as per the responsibilities of your position, and the rules that Sujoy has set up.

Either you need to find people with more time, or you need to get your admins on the same page as you. There are currently 37 user admins, of which about 10 have not been on in the past 2 months. You have 7 site admins, of which 2 have not been on in the past 2 months. At very least, you have 32 active admins. This is an excessive number of admins, and there is no excuse for any violation of the rules to have gone unserviced. You make up only 2% of the total admins, nearly 100% of the moderation, and near 0% consistency.

straw man? you said it's a job. it's not a job in any way, shape or form. these are volunteers who simple have been trusted with abilities, but they are not expected to exercise them. do you understand?

you have no idea what the "rate" of moderation is. you have no idea how many actually active admins there are. there are maybe 4-5, and plenty of moderation is occurring.

why can't you just do your shit and shut up like every other goddamn forumadmin on the planet?

because i'm lonely :(

there must be something else. cause others are aswell

even kim jon il???

you're comparing yourself with the big k?

I never said that it was your employment, or occupation. It is a job. You are in a position, with responsibilities. The fact that you aren't living up to those responsibilities does not change the fact that the job itself still exists.

32 admins actively visit this site, and several are online at any time. If they are not actively acting in an administrator capacity, you shouldn't have them in the role to begin with.

What do you seem to think is moderation? This site has completely abandoned the posting rules that Sujoy has made for MANY years. The only things that get "moderated" are the extreme cases, negativity towards Shootmania, and a few arbitrary things that you disagree with.

I'm not complaining about the other admins, either. For the most part, the lack of moderation has worked. The community could always be better, but it could also do a lot worse. Moderation can work, too, but it needs to be reasonable, and consistent. You also need a way to enforce them, which is supposed to be the purpose of user admins. Since you aren't administrating your admins, and you aren't moderating threads (except for the select few that involve Shootmania), what would you say... you do here?

again, you don't understand. it is not a job. it is not a position that comes with responsibility to be active.

if they are not actively acting in administrator capacity, we still have the ability to do so, in the same way any user has the ability to contribute content to the site. every level on this site is a level of trust, not a level of responsibility.

what I do here is indeed administrating admins, threads, content, threads. your view on how well you think I am doing it, is irrelevant to me, because you simply have no idea what's going on in that regard.

Then you have no admins - you just have people who are labeled as admins.

In the past 5 years, I have seen almost no rules enforced. You want to claim that they can't be seen because they are deleted, but that doesn't explain all the posts that break the rules that get through. It's not like it's an odd comment here or there, it's every single thread.

I can't judge what I can't see, and I'm not trying to. If you want to provide evidence of what you have done for evaluation, that's a whole different discussion. We don't need to see those things, though, because there is plenty that we can see.

The community can only judge how well you are doing based on the expectations of your role, and if that is irrelevant to you, you already have a fundamental misunderstanding of the position that you're supposed to fill.

you are correct, we have no admins. just users with various abilities. you are the one with fundamental misunderstanding of the position that i'm supposed to fulfill, because i'm not supposed to fulfill any position. i am doing doing what i want to do and i want to enable more other people to do what they want to do.

Exactly, and that is in direct conflict with the actual rules of the site. You should edit those rules, change your practices, or step down.

again, you don't understand how this website works. it works based on contributions from its users, which they want to give. all admins contribute what they want, and are given various levels of trust. there is no conflict. whatever the reason you don't understand how the site work, i've exhausted all the ways i can describe it, at this point. thanks for your contributions in this discussion and good luck in your future endeavors.

I suppose it's hard to understand something that has never been defined, that conflicts with the written rules, and that appears to change on a whim.

No.

(sorry for the necro, but i just wanted the last word against vedic for once since he hasn't been on in months...)

He is still here but he hides under an alias now.

I doubt you'll see him for a while (will probably return like one of those rent boy hit politicians after a year with a tale of why he left unrelated of course!), it was quite the scandal when he was caught slagging gamers off on esreality for being stupid and working at walmart, when his own wife was actually working at walmart!

Some random alias posted a link to it and he left days later, from 6+ years of constant spamming to nothing.

http://www.esreality.com/post/2280806/does-anybody-else/
Comment #37 @ 09:49 BST, 25 June 2012

Its always the same with people like that, which is why most of them share nothing and bitch at those who do:)

only you endure the constant mockery and shame... so brave

A + for making me spill my milk all over my keyboard

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IPmzcm8i2Q

Then you do poor moderation efforts. How idiots such as Usagi and likes can even post on this site?

Usagi needs to stay.

Your views on ESR are severely wrong.

Without the community and the resident trolls this site would go the way of geocities. It's not what you want, it's what the community wants, it was always that way.

if you want to change the last 13 years, why not just make a new site, the roots of trolling and bashing are too deep in this site and community, that's what makes it attractive for most who stay here.

A change in direction will only make it rot faster.

your views on ESR are complete bullshit based on circle jerk that is 10 people. this website has thousands of moderate readers, and this website was left by thousands more sick of the trolls, who would come back.

even due to mild changes of the past year, stats show the website has grown.

The website may have grown in pure number of visitors per month but it most certainly hasn't content wise.

The way you seem to go about it now is put quantity over quality.

part of the problem is over-dependance on QuakeLive content. anyway, I can check the content numbers later, neither of us know, whether content went up or down.

Purely number wise no, but even a blind monkey could see the amount of quality content has decreased over the last year even.

Shootmania might somewhat remedy that sure but at the risk of alienating the existing ql userbase

only if that userbase is a bunch of intolerant assholes who can't stand someone else playing another game? if not, why would they be alienated?

This means the community/individuals can NOT decide to ostracize another community/individual.

This happens on a regular basis, even TO Quake. You've only enforced this for Shootmania, so there is clearly a severe problem with your administration.

No, not in the same manner, this never happened to Quake. But I agree anyway, I will work on enforcing this for every game from now on.

But I agree anyway, I will work on enforcing this for every game from now on.

I'm actually looking forward to this.

You might start by rethinking your position on trolls who "entertain each other" and pay some attention to Q4 threads and forum which are completely flooded by one person's crap and therefore useless to anyone.

my impression is that a lot of people find those entertaining.

Like it or not, whatever Usagi posts gets 100+replies, so I guess the community does "need" him in a bizzare way.

You can't merely "pretend" to know the sincerity of someone's thoughts, since you are claiming they are pretending too. Weird innit?

You are not an authority on "what the game is". So you can make no such claim about what people are pretending it actually "is".

You use words like "anyone who takes a look at the game for 2 minutes..."


Which is obviously false. As anyone, means everybody, or anybody that has, or will, thus you're wrong.

Speaking of bias, join the club, and have a drink. We're all sitting at the same table.

lol @ powertrip

contributing: shootmania is shit

I like shootmania
































Plus me

[-]

[-]

\:(/

[-]

just [+]'ed you.

Btw i have a question for you : don't you think that ins(aka insan3) is handsome ?

I love you :))))))

i love you too

tony you are one of the most awesome guy in the quake community.

Shootmania is an abomination to the fps genre, but perfect for facebook.

what's your shootmania account?

I would never play such a shitty game. How much do they pay you to advertise/defend it?

so you haven't tried it?

no one has to pay me to defend common sense, and i'm not advertising SM.

He doesn't need to try it. It's not marketed as "oh hai zis is cazuals mkay?". It's supposed to be the future of esports which means it has to be spectator friendly.

Noone needs to play it to know that it's boring to watch.

account: wormed

Confirmed shit.

lack of depth - the end

Now I remember why I stopped coming here, coverage of useless games which nobody gives a shit about; That, and people with a prolapse who suddenly turned admin...

why don't you keep it that way then?

No worries, wanted to go to engadget, somehow typed esreality.

ah, there's a quality website

I just compare it to the Verge, i'm so ashamed now.

Demiurge, half of the posts in Shitmania threads are yours. Just STFU and stop trying to show us how great your SM game is, it's all i have to say

i'm not trying to show you how great the game is, in any of those posts. find me one post where I am?

we don't need posts praising the game from you, when your moderation skills show your favorism.

i would defend QL the same way if it was being put down the same way. it's moderation, not favoritism.

I know you hear that a lot, but in my years here I haven't seen shit like that happen before. Don't come with past moderation examples of banning people and what not, cause that's not even in the same league..., well you can mention kdawg, i like that... but

Not a single game was moderated as Shootmania is, never. It's just not ESR.

the amount of shit that was being poured on SM wasn't even ESR like either. if ESR became quake-only, it wouldn't be the traditional ESR either. and if it has become complete exclusive to any new developments, it has to change, or it will die simply due to its aging demographic being too busy with their kids and facebook, yet still capable of rallying around game abuse to maintain their aging status quo.

There was even more bullshit spewed in the OSP vs. CPMA debate alone which was more or less active in the entirety of Quake 3 lifespan, no actions were taken what-so-ever, but that's most likely because Arqon/Rhea were not pussies crying to admins, or well maybe at that point admins weren't taking sides, which was the right thing to do, let both sides voice their opinion.

Now someone says "the game looks shit, it's boring, no depth" and he's relegated to a side topic, because opinions are valid as long as they are positive, if they're negative you must be a troll and your opinion is worth shit, thus it shouldn't be on the main page.

If you want to "protect" a single game from negativity, maybe open a site dedicated to that game, or better yet, let the developers of that game disprove the negativity by providing a stellar game.

All in all, I though people are perfectly fine creating their own opinions on games and things to do. Nobody needs moderation in this format you're doing.

the CPMA vs OSP people are the same people, switching sides multiple times. it's inner-community sort of argument.

SM is a completely new game, with potentially completely new players and site visitors.

if stermy,fox,strenx etc. weren't playing SM, no-one would care...but i mean NO ONE(doubt wed see a single comment)...there are plenty free FPS shooters out there which have solid potential
its all about quakers and what they do(in regards to esr.com), even i followed warsaw because of voO, altho i never played it

Amount of shit that was poured on CPMA over trivial cvars (shit like direction of timer) or Quake 4 in its buggy state was several orders of magnitude bigger than amount of shit that was poured on SM.


Most people were doing drive-by bashing of SM and they don't even care that much about it. They are continuing only to oppose you. At this moment it's not "Quakers vs SM", it's "ESR users vs Demiurge".

i am happy to take on the flames, it's part of my deflection strategy.

what the fuck are you doing with your life

i'm doing a lot of things, this is just one my hobbies.

Nuff said

You just go on and on, hope you run out of internet at some point, or SM is sponsoring you?

im not sure what you're saying, SM is not sponsoring me

I don't remember admins doing the same with other game's constant bashing, like doom3, quake4 or warsow. That's why it seems suspicious, with them sponsoring everyone e-sports related and all that.

This nuked message brought to you by Shootmania.

Shillmania ftw! plus me Demiurge :D

Another funny thing is that everyone says something like: play it first before you comment on it. I have a friend who is trying desperatly to get a key since 2 weeks without any success...
If you promote the game this much you should actually make sure that ppl who want to give it a go be able to do so...

And again I'm saying no to all the people telling other people to try it. It's supposed to be entertaining to watch and it isn't. Haven't played PK, loved every match of it. Never really liked playing BW, love english casted vods. I love playing table tennis and pool but they're a snoozefest to watch. Fun gameplay doesn't equal an entertaining spectator experience which esports are about.

Another funny thing is that everyone says something like: play it first before you comment on it.

this is stupid peoples argument really. you dont have to being shot to know that experience is painful and unpleasant. it is the same when you say this x band/singer etc suck and they strike you with "do something better before you critize"... i did try tribes and all it did is convinced my suspicion about tedious and boring gameplay, just what the gameplay videos suggested. ill try shootmania too, so when this stupid people trying to strike me i can just reply with "yes i tried" instead of dealing with illogical stupidity.

Lmao @ Vedic.

Vedic i love you, but why don't you stick to teamliquid ? You seem to not like quake neither shootmania neither warsow etc...

The question is : what do you like ? I already know the answer : sc2. Now stop talking about anything that is not sc2 related, because you're bad at it. You're not even a troll, so, stop it!

word

Flag =

Made me laugh.

Little known fact: Demiurge is, in fact, French.


Dun Dun Dunnnn

Tsssss

What's wrong with being french ? I'm french too, frenchies are mostly beautiful men and women, with nice bodies.

It was a compliment.

full of hair

Shootmania is a crap game because there's no shaft nor thunderstruck.

j/k i love this game.